tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post2336764850327752157..comments2024-03-28T21:32:26.550+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: The Totalitarian Transhumanist agenda - can it succeed?Bruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-86459353443177353822018-02-25T23:01:11.057+00:002018-02-25T23:01:11.057+00:00"it is the project to alleviate all pain and ..."it is the project to alleviate all pain and distress, maximise gratification and fulfillment, abolish ageing and sustain human life indefinitely. In other words, it is a kind of extrapolation of medicine from treatment into enhancement."<br /><br />This sort of utilitarian earthly moralism is the exact opposite of what was the case in the religious society of the middle ages. For example, if a person got cancer, it was often sinful to intervene with medicine and therefore interrupt God's will. The patient often turned to God and asked for his grace to become healed. He would then pursue prayer, meditation and repentance. If he died, he died, because one were not supposed to "delay " ones faith. Now, this would be seen as insane by modern standards (yet it is actually quite an astonishingly humble act to my mind), yet the same standards has led to nothing but cowardice and a costly society of permanent patients. <br /><br />So if our morals had become so lazy even common sense is taboo, then it seems to me that is exactly what the evil forces would want to implement their plans. Meaning, a dysgenic, standardized population is actually what increases (not decreases) their chances of success.Adilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458942641355740167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-27081162332288306262018-02-25T22:24:36.350+00:002018-02-25T22:24:36.350+00:00Jesus Christ.. If this is the final goal of Evil, ...Jesus Christ.. If this is the final goal of Evil, then it's even worse than hell - it is literally an eternal computational existence with no sign of life. We won't even be able to face the dooms day, because we will be forever doomed. This is why I just can't seem to grow warm toward technology. Even small things such as people using the GPS to find "the right store" seems to be re-orienting the human mind toward transhumanism.Adilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458942641355740167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-37921658774112296082018-02-25T20:39:13.310+00:002018-02-25T20:39:13.310+00:00@RB - Barfield can't be rushed, but if you can...@RB - Barfield can't be rushed, but if you can tune-into him, he is one of the deepest and most important of philosophers - one of a handful of major writer I have come to know in the past decade. <br /><br />http://owenbarfieldblog.blogspot.co.uk/Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-21718042363658249802018-02-25T19:17:10.563+00:002018-02-25T19:17:10.563+00:00Conveniently, I am currently surrounded by people ...Conveniently, I am currently surrounded by people who know the math and physics! I'm in a neuroscience department in which half of the professors have physics degrees. (You will be unsurprised to hear that the most spiritually healthy of these is a Mormon.) What makes this even more convenient is that some of these math/physics people have been roped into the current machine learning / "AI" situation.<br /><br />I will go read Worlds Apart and Unancestral Voice and see if I can get that knowledge moved into my community.<br /><br />-- Robert BrockmanAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14688388974175811976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-87529121718411705652018-02-25T17:27:37.971+00:002018-02-25T17:27:37.971+00:00Per revelation (as given to Joseph Smith and taugh...Per revelation (as given to Joseph Smith and taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints):<br /><br />1. We are eternal just as our Father is eternal. <br />2. We come to mortality voluntarily. <br />3. The purpose of mortality is to enable each of us to make decisions that either take <br /> us closer to our Father or away from Him. The closer we come to Him the more like <br /> Him we become. <br />4. The opposition we face in mortality is a necessary part of the learning process. <br /> We are tested in our faith, hope, charity, courage and all aspects of truth and<br /> righteousness. <br />5. Jesus Christ is the key, literally, to salvation and the exaltation available to <br /> all who accept and follow Him.<br /><br />The Atonement of Jesus Christ covers all errors, transgressions and sins but only after one has repented and accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. God judges and His judgement is just and right. <br /><br />Very simple to state this, very difficult to live it. The foundational choice we make is: God or no God? Life will be lived in quite different ways depending on this choice. <br /><br />Our Father is always supreme. Mortality is for a very short time. The choices we make in mortality are lasting. <br /><br />Death of the mortal body is not the end. Those who have passed on can make the necessary choices once taught. Teaching continues in the afterlife. God's justice and mercy are infinite and reach far beyond this mortal life. Ancestors who never heard of Jesus will be given the opportunity to learn of Him and to accept or reject Him. <br /><br />For many who are sentenced to endure in hell the stay will not be permanent. God's justice really is just. Any time in that place will be extremely unpleasant but once the consequences of unrepented sin are fully paid there will be release but further progression in God's kingdom will be curtailed. The path of progression toward God for those who have repented is open. Those who have knowingly and willingly reject God after having learned the truth of His existence will be confined forever.<br /><br />What we see happening today was prophesied anciently and we know what the outcome will be. All will end well because all IS well. The job of believers is to let others know the truth. It is up to them to accept or reject. It is good to be concerned for our fellow men and to strive to aid them with truth. I believe God blesses and will continue to bless all men and women of good will who strive to bring truth to those who are ignorant of it.Desert Rathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11985993848922650013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-22068950101681286542018-02-25T14:10:55.724+00:002018-02-25T14:10:55.724+00:00@RB - I agree this is a valid path for some people...@RB - I agree this is a valid path for some people - but not many. For most people you would need to teach them the physics first, and that would be difficult! But back in the 1950s-60s Owen Barfield was clear that the implications of modern phyics included the destruction of naive realism/ materialism/ scientism - and all you needed to do was be consistent in applying the implications of physics to the rest of life. This point is made very strongly in both Worlds Apart and (even more so) Unancestral Voice. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-29888204506342732892018-02-25T14:06:07.011+00:002018-02-25T14:06:07.011+00:00@Whitestone - Yes, I agree - they are in a hurry a...@Whitestone - Yes, I agree - they are in a hurry and being more obvious, and it is a weakness; hurry combined with the natural tendency of angry, impatient orcs to fight and kill each other. Things are clearer then before. But that will not be noticed, will not be acted upon, unless people abandon their materialist hedonic metaphysics...Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-47555346292006807142018-02-25T14:03:01.415+00:002018-02-25T14:03:01.415+00:00@David
Yes - and as well the way we have led our ...@David<br /><br />Yes - and as well the way we have led our lives up to the choice does make a difference to the choice we make. <br /><br />"How are we to protect our Children from the tsumani that looms over the horizon?"<br /><br />Ultimately, of course, we cannot - because they are not 'our' children but their own people. But Love is an objective fact of reality - and it does make a difference. Indeed it may be the only thing that does make a difference at the moment of choice. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-53623597678464890562018-02-25T13:37:41.453+00:002018-02-25T13:37:41.453+00:00The personal choice for good. Ofcourse you are rig...The personal choice for good. Ofcourse you are right. Listening to our consciences and acting upon them. Doing what we know to be right. Not allowing ourselves to become distracted. It really is that simple, even though it is incredibly hard. <br />One thing that gives me hope is that evil seems to be in an incredible hurry at the moment. Much of It’s subtlety is waning ,making it much easier to see it for what it is. No longer a slow drip feed but a mighty wave. I feel that more people, even secular individuals, are beginning to see the evil agenda and siding, in principal if not through faith, with the Christian perspective. The persecution of Christians could awaken a good few souls. Evil itself could yet be responsible for a religious revival. The demonic forces unwittingly sowing a spiritual germ in their desperation to reach their goals. It seems as though a time may come when the truth will become more obvious and the choice between good and evil a given. Perhaps the compulsory chipping of individuals will be a huge turning point. Bring it on. Yet I still struggle in understanding why god doesn’t MAKE himself known to more of us, when so much is at stake. Maybe he’s happy to just let us live our lives and do the best we can by ourselves, independently. The existence of god is not obvious, nor is the truth of Christianity. Such questions are to be grappled with. Why does he insist on remaining on the shadows when he could make himself known to us all? You don’t have to answer that by the way. Just thinking out loud.whitestonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16325872604015572514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-2281791025625499062018-02-25T10:47:30.306+00:002018-02-25T10:47:30.306+00:00"Anyone can stop, whenever they wish - by rep..."Anyone can stop, whenever they wish - by repentance. God ensures that the situation of clarity will arise, for every single person. But then we must make that personal choice for Good."<br /><br />So it seems Bruce that what you are saying is still what you always have done i.e. no one will be overwhelmed by evil, except by choice, and everyone will get their hearts desire in the end, they just might not like it when they get it! If God is entirely loving then he will surely bring us to a point of clarity about the consequences we are heading towards with our decisions, even if this point comes after death. Presumably he would not allow us to be 'hoodwinked' into making false choices with eternal repercussions because of the earthly environment that has overwhelmed us from cradle to grave, without an entirely fair (and different for each individually) opportunity to adjust our spiritual trajectories?!<br /><br />I know I have made up my mind but I cannot shake the feeling that I may yet be fooled by some crucial deception at every twist and turn of mortal life...Perhaps more oppressively I dread the future of my children and loved ones, whom do not share my Christian world view or may not grow to do so and this is a heart-breaking fear without parallel compared to my own selfish ideas of spiritual self-preservation. How are we to protect our Children from the tsumani that looms over the horizon?<br /><br />Excellent post - but profoundly unsettling in equal measures!<br /><br />David Balfourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12099160562774064281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-6255076689680561132018-02-25T07:47:25.835+00:002018-02-25T07:47:25.835+00:00I agree that a math-physics explanation of the lin...I agree that a math-physics explanation of the link between the material world and the True Mind does not give us much insight into fundamental Purpose or ethics. What is *does* do is get back into people's heads that there is an Outside, that materialism is fundamentally incomplete and that Free Will is real.<br /><br />The purpose of formulating, testing, and distributing such a theory would be to help get people out of demotivated atheism. Once there is an "Outside", then the notion of a higher Purpose and Free Will is back on the table.<br /><br />A strategic goal of the Enemy is to get people to deny Free Will -- this is a good way for people to be conned into ignoring the True Self. If people understand that their behavior has an ineradicable "random" component -- "random" just means determined by something outside the System (and the material universe as a whole) -- then the "you have no Free Will" lie is effectively countered.<br /><br />Not a substitute for Christianity, but a partial gateway back.<br /><br />-- Robert BrockmanAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14688388974175811976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-58444133109320761592018-02-25T07:42:32.841+00:002018-02-25T07:42:32.841+00:00@whitestone.
It has been empirically proven by n...@whitestone. <br /><br />It has been empirically proven by now, for those open to proof, that Man cannot function even at the most basic biological level without religion. <br /><br />Without religion we cease to reproduce and choose species extinction - this applies in the native populations of all developed nations everywhere and without any exceptions. <br /><br />But of course, the biological functionality is the least of it - it is merely a marker for the profound dysfunctionality of Man without God. <br /><br />Yet a restoration of God to Man is only a first step - it is absolutely necessary and unavoidable - but it is only a first step. More exactly, we need to be Christian, but that is only a beginning, we need to be better Christians than ever before - and in a deeper and more personal way than ever before. <br /><br />We can no longer rely on merely obeying a church, because the churches are part of the problem, and also because even perfect obedience to a perfect church is not enough.<br /><br />It's a long stretch from where we are now! But the point is not to get there but to aim at it - there is plenty of time to get there on an eternal timescale, so long as we do not destroy that possibility by ceasing to think and allowing our judgment, our hearts, to be occupied and assimilated by The System. <br /><br />We are manipulated, but we are not innocent - everyone knows, in their heart, the evil they do - they know that evil comes only where it is invited.<br /><br />The deeply assimilated evil inflicted by totalitarian transhumanism is a product of multiple choices by multiple individual humans, of multiple times when evil has been chosen, accumulated one upon the other. <br /><br />Anyone can stop, whenever they wish - by repentance. God ensures that the situation of clarity will arise, for every single person. But then we must make that personal choice for Good. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-53595652002465136842018-02-25T06:49:41.922+00:002018-02-25T06:49:41.922+00:00It's an extremely though-provoking piece. Anot...It's an extremely though-provoking piece. Another point strikes me. If we're being encouraged to think that humans are nothing more than the contents of their brains then what's to say that robots can't be human too, They have a 'brain' as well, after all. I can easily foresee an incident in the future where a robot is beaten up by neo-Luddites in the back streets of Leicester or somewhere. Next day there'd be outrage in the press and a candlelit vigil would be held. I can imagine someone holding up a placard saying 'Robots feel pain too' or 'Robots are human too.' There'd be a big push for 'robot equality' and maybe even a 'robot parade' on the anniversary of the killing a year later.<br /><br />The way things are going, by the time this scenario could potentially come to pass, there will probably be a very strong affinity between humans and robots. It's not so pronounced in Australia, where I am at the moment, but in England we're starting to see so many 'man-machine hybrids' it's astonishing - people talking to their phones as they're walking along wiith wires dangling out of their pockets and so on. People are becoming their technology, increasingly thinking like and even looking like the machines they use. <br /><br />Another book I think the demonic powers must have read is Colin Wilson's Religion and the Rebel. What we read there is that it's only the Outsider who is capable of restoring and renewing a decadent civilisation. If you create a world where it's impossible to be an Outsider because there is no 'outside' - no thoughts or feelings that exist by themselves outside the system - then you rid yourself of the dangerous maverick who has the potential and to become the spiritual and creative genius who might shake your throne and usher in a new order. They've surely read That Hideous Strength as well. The last type of person they'd want to see is a Ransom-like figure, an Outsider who had found his place in the Great Battle between good and evil, who sees through the tissue of lies spread about by the ruling powers and has a relationship with God and the higher angels which enables him to do something about it. Such a man must never be allowed to appear.John Fitzgeraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13951246561259007162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-16608898374484854942018-02-25T00:15:07.881+00:002018-02-25T00:15:07.881+00:00Well we really have been cast into this world like...Well we really have been cast into this world like lambs to the slaughter. I’ve no idea how ordinary foolish men like myself are to have a chance of safely navigating our way through this minefield we have been born into. A mighty plague unleashed upon the bodies minds and spirits of ordinary men, women and small innocent babes. Even the strongest and wisest among us could been struck down in an instant. How much responsibility can be put on the individual for being infected when there is disease all around him. When we have been bombarded by this strange force 24/7 from cradle to grave. Are we to be blamed for succumbing to this programming any more than Pavlov’s dog should be blamed every time the bell rang? And are those who know nothing of god to be judged for unwittingly succumbing to this most all encompassing, mightiest of forces, by this absent father that is god who they never really knew or never even met. How many billions have to suffer and perish at the hands of these demons. And why does god allow it? whitestonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16325872604015572514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-6371604798061034102018-02-24T21:56:01.367+00:002018-02-24T21:56:01.367+00:00@John - Thank you.
It's strange that both yo...@John - Thank you. <br /><br />It's strange that both you and William like this post so much, in the sense that I wrote it just after a bad migraine combined with painful pharyngitis yesterday, a disturbed night's sleep - and I was still feeling pretty fragile, and blurry this morning. The auguries didn't seem hopeful. <br /><br />Just goes to show... something or another.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-3108356253587619532018-02-24T21:19:21.324+00:002018-02-24T21:19:21.324+00:00It's as if the demonic powers have read 1984 a...It's as if the demonic powers have read 1984 and Brave New World and decided to blend them together - hard and soft communism, as it were. But we, fortunately, have the prophetic insight of That Hideous Strength to give us perspective and hope. John Fitzgeraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13951246561259007162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-45874143248066525282018-02-24T21:04:30.538+00:002018-02-24T21:04:30.538+00:00Stunning insight and analysis, Bruce. This is a re...Stunning insight and analysis, Bruce. This is a real 'cut out and keep' piece. You've done everyone a great service in writing this.John Fitzgeraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13951246561259007162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-31964091609471166242018-02-24T18:22:52.074+00:002018-02-24T18:22:52.074+00:00@RB - Your explanatory model is getting close to t...@RB - Your explanatory model is getting close to that kind of Platonist Deism which often attracts mathematicians and physicists. But (as I argued in my book about science - Not Even Trying) - I think the history of science shows us that this kind of life-philosophy is not sustainable across generations - it is a transitional stage between Christianity or Judaism en route to (demotivated) atheism. Because there has to be an *imperativ*e behind ideas - not just an aesthetic appreciation of abstractions. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-73154089034883537942018-02-24T15:49:03.296+00:002018-02-24T15:49:03.296+00:00More thoughts on this:
The key to the genius fami...More thoughts on this:<br /><br />The key to the genius famine is that new information only gets injected into the world via the True Self. Heavy suppression of the True Self should negate creativity entirely, only transformation of information already in the universe would be possible -- this is of course what we are observing in the modern System.<br /><br />Dr. Charlton, I am increasingly convinced that the relationship between the True Self and the rest of the world can be described rather straightforwardly in terms of information theory and quantum mechanics. Of course the "inner workings" of the True Self *cannot be described* by any model representable in the physical world, even in principle. I think this can be argued on Incompleteness Theorem grounds, as well as on QM grounds: the quantum randomness (which I suspect forms part of the bridge between the material universe and the True Self) cannot be predicted by any means within this universe (this is Bell's Inequality.)<br /><br />"Changing the coordinate system" of your ideas in this essay into a "QM / Information Theory basis" should allow us to expose a number of people in the transhumanism business to the reality of the True Self.<br /><br />-- Robert Brockman<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14688388974175811976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-66201375253608167302018-02-24T15:23:02.085+00:002018-02-24T15:23:02.085+00:00There is much to unpack here (this whole essay str...There is much to unpack here (this whole essay strikes me as essentially correct) -- for now I want to suggest a term already in use that combines the two senses of transhumanism you are talking about: "Fully Automated (automatic) Luxury Communism" (as opposed to traditional Bolt-Action Rural Communism) <br /><br />-- Robert BrockmanAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14688388974175811976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-50467473649765269992018-02-24T14:32:17.030+00:002018-02-24T14:32:17.030+00:00Thanks William!
The rate of implementation of th...Thanks William! <br /><br />The rate of implementation of the totalitarian agenda is accelerating and becoming more open and explicit (perhaps because the demonic powers feel that time is running-out before civilisation collapses, or perhaps simply because they are getting away with it so far; so why no increase the pace?). Yet I don't detect any overall increased recognition or resistance - there is a very vague sense of discomfort, but nothing clear or explicit.<br /><br />I don't believe that lack of 'evidence' or 'information' is the main problem - there could scarcely be more evidence and information than we already have. The problem is those basic materialist, anti-spiritual, anti-divine, anti-Christian assumptions which absolutely prevent most people from perceiving and knowing what ought to be blatantly obvious. <br /><br /> Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-7395611740794931012018-02-24T11:40:16.279+00:002018-02-24T11:40:16.279+00:00This is a brilliant essay, Bruce, one of your very...This is a brilliant essay, Bruce, one of your very best. It lays out our current dilemma with pinpoint accuracy and leaves no room for evasion. I believe the demons are aiming for the point where they will have created a real rupture between the earthly personality and the spiritual self, and their victims will literally be soulless entities. It’s a terrible thought. On the positive side though, our fate is entirely in our own hands. They can’t do anything to us that we don’t allow them to do.<br /><br />As you say, the Real Self cannot be destroyed but I think the connection we have to it can be broken and this is what is being attempted now, with spectacular success, I would say. Once that happens there is probably no return though for God anything is possible I suppose. But it will probably be a self-chosen damnation which will not necessarily entail spectacular suffering but a gradual thinning of consciousness which will become less and less alert and alive, and possibly end up by fading away entirely.<br />William Wildbloodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231219533755925897noreply@blogger.com