tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post2955983144517610642..comments2024-03-29T12:03:37.344+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: Mainstream morality is (always) the opposite of what is neededBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-3056967770594594352018-12-03T06:21:36.952+00:002018-12-03T06:21:36.952+00:00I'd say it's a natural intrinsic tendency,...I'd say it's <i>a</i> natural intrinsic tendency, but one of several (I'll not deny it's preeminent among them). The vast majority of people are natural consumerists their whole lives, and nearly everyone is as a child. But there are also natural conservators, even among children.<br /><br />And while the natural capitalists are rare enough that they don't exist in <i>every</i> population, especially among children, there must have been a few around before civilization could have gotten started in the first place.Chiu ChunLinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03519192610708043962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-79865581976858060122018-12-01T16:58:07.085+00:002018-12-01T16:58:07.085+00:00@CCL - " The continuation of any society abov...@CCL - " The continuation of any society above the subsistence hunter-gatherer level absolutely depends on capital investment. " - Yes, and this is why it is unnatural to us, and the intrinsic tendency is to 'lapse' back to Not investing. <br />Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-33014020492845206872018-12-01T16:49:00.420+00:002018-12-01T16:49:00.420+00:00Well, propagandizing the masses to continue unques...Well, propagandizing the masses to continue unquestioning participation in the system.<br /><br />It's capitalistic as long as such participation produces the goods and services that the masses need to keep participating. But when it produces only what the elite (and masses) desire immediately, and not what must be invested to keep the system running, then it is mere consumerism.<br /><br />There are only three ways to use wealth. One can consume it, conserve it for later, or one can invest it as capital to make more wealth. The continuation of any society above the subsistence hunter-gatherer level absolutely depends on capital investment. Most effective capitalization requires a strong ethic of conserving wealth till the best investment opportunities (in amortized ROI, ROI divided by the period between such investments) are available.<br /><br />And consumption is pretty much the whole point of the exercise. That's why you have wealth, in the end.<br /><br />But if you let it be the first thing you do with your wealth...well now, down that road is leather loincloths and pointy sticks, with more than half your children dead in infancy and being hunted by large predators if you escape the microscopic ones.Chiu ChunLinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03519192610708043962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-7788160445049868572018-11-30T21:09:39.348+00:002018-11-30T21:09:39.348+00:00@SA - It seems very likely. @SA - It seems very likely. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-85931346003515403462018-11-30T19:47:06.418+00:002018-11-30T19:47:06.418+00:00My suspicion is that a lot of the ‘advertising’ re...My suspicion is that a lot of the ‘advertising’ revenue is effectively money laundering for bureaucracies who want surveillance for other things. “Selling products more effectively” is just a capitalistically-plausible motivation that can be held up in public.Seijio Arakawahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02615803270163614513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-76202340449230708372018-11-29T16:10:46.351+00:002018-11-29T16:10:46.351+00:00https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/201...https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/11/google-patent-bedroom-privacy-smart-home/576022/?fbclid=IwAR3yAygKKMf7ZitpWNjU5f_C7SHyESlR3VXf0nxvclp8CsEhlElqfafvDkgNathanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04531664498277638757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-74376564181490573162018-11-29T16:10:21.668+00:002018-11-29T16:10:21.668+00:00It turns out massive public surveillance is very p...It turns out massive public surveillance is very profitable. It allows for more efficient targeting of advertisements. When almost everyone is somewhat tainted by soulless consumerism (myself certainly not exempt) that sort of mentality is rather easy to exploit on this model (i.e. *gifts* are the most important part of Christmas, Black Friday deals are the most important part of Thanksgiving, etc.) - so unlike the Russian system - which was great for human physical suffering - this soulless system of empty and easy ephemeral satisfactions is actually profitable to implement. Apple has Siri which can listen to you all the time, Amazon has Alexa, Facebook already listens to your phone's microphone and reports location through the app for advertising - but they are also releasing a home monitoring/spy device. <br /><br />It's interesting the idea of Big Brother, no one could imagine letting The Man into your home, but now almost everyone I see (even some very conservative religious families) have these devices everywhere that literally are designed (with our knowledge) to spy on us (to help us and make life easier of course!) all the time.<br /><br />What I mean though is that this of course makes the whole push for conformity within (maybe I shouldn't say those things, the device is listening?) on top of all the external pressures - forced conformity, legal, or just through social pressures. It also makes living in the manufactured media narrative 24/7 even easier. It's hard to use our brains ("Siri, what is the truth?", "Alexa, what is the truth?", etc.)<br /><br />We've quickly and completely embraced what everyone was sure they would reject and never accept a couple decades ago.Nathanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04531664498277638757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-39429200270882194452018-11-29T12:13:52.253+00:002018-11-29T12:13:52.253+00:00@Michael - Another source was Shelby Steele's ...@Michael - Another source was Shelby Steele's memorable book White Guilt.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-627056964824728462018-11-29T10:48:19.865+00:002018-11-29T10:48:19.865+00:00There was a great screwtape letter on this, that h...There was a great screwtape letter on this, that human beings are always after the virtue closest to the vice they love.Michael Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02424741388413201535noreply@blogger.com