tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post4837290838119567399..comments2024-03-28T00:17:55.823+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: Where does evil come from? A simple answer is neededBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-51149221051876769422022-02-13T20:10:42.998+00:002022-02-13T20:10:42.998+00:00@fitz - Yes, Mormon theology.
But Gnosticism? Ru...@fitz - Yes, Mormon theology. <br /><br />But Gnosticism? Rubbish! This is almost the exact opposite of neo-platonic esoteric mysticism. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-73775061290147368282022-02-13T18:54:32.081+00:002022-02-13T18:54:32.081+00:00You are preaching gnosticism here. Residual (?) Mo...You are preaching gnosticism here. Residual (?) Mormonism, I suppose?<br /><br />God created us and the angels as intellects and wills apart from his own. He did this to allow us freedom freedom to love as he loves. Freedom entails the ability to refuse to love. That is why there is evil. Because there are angelic intelligences who rule this world (the powers and principalities) who "for a time and season" wreck havoc and tempt us to evil. We are free, in our fallen state and separation from God and heaven, to cooperate with evil, and we all do to greater or lesser degree. This is sin. We are also free to reject slavery to sin and satan, and repent by way of grace.<br /><br />Christ, the Incarnate Logos, who shares in our human nature, has a will separate from the Father's. To assert there is only one divine will is heretical, monothelitism. We, made in his image and likeness, do as well. His will is in perfect accord with the Father's will. We are able by his grace to bring our wills into accord with the divine will as well, and by way of grace enter into communion in the divine life of the Holy Trinity and become holy as God is holy. This is why the Fall and sin are blessings, because they allow us to freely accept grace, and be saved.<br /><br />All sin and evil must be understood as a necessary consequence of human dignity and freedom. Evil exists because we are free to reject the Good, just like the demons did. The solution to evil and suffering is grace, which is being in cooperation with the divine will and intimate communion with God.fitzhamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01852672798351791749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-59421728038139731952022-02-12T02:00:04.865+00:002022-02-12T02:00:04.865+00:00Perhaps there is no predestination to free will. W...Perhaps there is no predestination to free will. When God grants free will it is truly free and until the moment we, (I'm including thinking spiritual beings in this) exercise the free will granted, he does not know what we will choose because it is truly free and unencumbered by even God's certain foreknowledge of our choices. <br /><br />Truly free will. So how could he know what our choices would be unless he chose to do so? I believe he is choosing to allow truly free will because anything else is a fraud.Brick Hardslabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07820448429677539704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-19002887569540308222022-02-11T22:17:44.771+00:002022-02-11T22:17:44.771+00:00Evil manifests in human brains and it extends no f...Evil manifests in human brains and it extends no further than one's interiority. Like Lucifer attempting to usurp God, humans are ever in error in attempting to usurp who they are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-16619857624506538842022-02-11T17:26:21.204+00:002022-02-11T17:26:21.204+00:00“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, yo...“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."<br /><br />I think orthodoxy should always be tested, to make sure it's not 'shutting the door in our faces' so to speak.Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-57606003602282167052022-02-11T16:49:59.516+00:002022-02-11T16:49:59.516+00:00@N - Of course I used to be orthodox theologically...@N - Of course I used to be orthodox theologically - but you would be better reading whatever attributes of God your own denominations gives, rather than taking my word for it. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-87771358260283815482022-02-11T16:08:23.432+00:002022-02-11T16:08:23.432+00:00Bruce, what do you mean by Omniscient?
Are you sa...Bruce, what do you mean by Omniscient?<br /><br />Are you saying for God to be Omniscient it means that God actually has to do everything that is done, and if he doesn't then he is not omniscient?<br /><br />Why can't an Omniscient God simply *have the ability* to do all things that can be done, rather than need to actually do them?<br /><br />Again, thanks for bringing these questions and challenging thoughts to the table as per!Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-37249173122742652392022-02-11T12:58:15.823+00:002022-02-11T12:58:15.823+00:00@DB - It seems you may have misunderstood. "&...@DB - It seems you may have misunderstood. ""If evil is really-real, and God is really Omni - then evil must come from God, evil must be located-in God, ultimately.""<br /><br />That sentence was not *my* opinion that God is evil - it is stating that IF evil is real and IF God is understood to be Omni - Then the evil must come from God (because there is nowhere else for it to originate). I am saying that the one is entailed by the other. <br /><br />But the thrust of the post is that *I* do Not believe that God is Omni - therefore I do Not believe that evil is located in God: so the above is Not my view. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-25666974721243261282022-02-11T11:48:33.121+00:002022-02-11T11:48:33.121+00:00Bruce - it could be we are talking in cross-purpos...Bruce - it could be we are talking in cross-purposes. If I am misreading you, forgive me.<br /><br />It was this sentence among others that moved me to make my statement:<br /><br />"If evil is really-real, and God is really Omni - then evil must come from God, evil must be located-in God, ultimately."<br /><br />I took that at face value, but I see now that there are ambiguities - in my mind, perhaps not in your writing - 'from God' 'located in God' 'Omni God' - do seem to attribute evil to God, at least as Source.<br /><br />Yours is a deep philosophy and I could be misunderstanding it. <br />As for creation at a point in time, and time being NOT infinite. once again I urge the reading of a difficult book but a profound one. Of course, there is not enough time left at my age to read everything I think I should. But this is imo pivotal.<br />Cheers,<br /><br /><br />New Proofs for the Existence of God: Contributions of Contemporary Physics and Philosophy Paperback – Illustrated, June 29, 2010<br />by Robert J. Spitzer <br />Dave Bagwillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04801611031079541236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-12650787936508880272022-02-11T06:31:48.110+00:002022-02-11T06:31:48.110+00:00@DB - I'm not clear about what you are saying ...@DB - I'm not clear about what you are saying - you are aware that this is not My view?<br /><br />"I see no logical reason at all for attributing evil to him." Surely that's a bizarre statement in context of what is written, and history? <br /><br />This 'no more than a demiurge' statement may be the trouble. I can't see that God as creator of the universe in which all Beings dwell could be called that - and that is what we are talking about. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-41824948001607630642022-02-10T22:30:59.879+00:002022-02-10T22:30:59.879+00:00A bridge too far, and flimsy at that:
"If ev...A bridge too far, and flimsy at that:<br /><br />"If evil is really-real, and God is really Omni - then evil must come from God, evil must be located-in God, ultimately."<br /><br />I think the caricature of god as no more than a demiurge does lead to the above mistaken idea.<br />Since time is not infinite, and the universe did originate at a point in time, then the real God is truly a Creator, not a skilled craftsman. If so, I see no logical reason at all for attributing evil to him. <br /><br />Dave Bagwillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04801611031079541236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-42895024389223288592022-02-10T18:01:47.627+00:002022-02-10T18:01:47.627+00:00As a Christian, I find that the belief in an Omni-...As a Christian, I find that the belief in an Omni-God is a convenient way to tell ourselves that we have no responsibility for evil, and that Super God is responsible for eliminating it while we sit back and wait, or are "Raptured" as some Christians believe. <br /><br />"Why doesn't God DO something about all the evil in the world?" Well, why aren't WE stopping any personal cooperation with evil? Why aren't we just saying NO to evil in the ways we can? I can think of one small way we can stop cooperating with evil that you have mentioned in your writing: we need to stop lying to ourselves and others.<br /><br />We are workers in the vineyard. We choose to cooperate with God's Divine will. Or we can try to destroy the vineyard and cooperate with evil.KatMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-84518329340516915962022-02-10T16:01:49.500+00:002022-02-10T16:01:49.500+00:00Dr. Charlton:
Thank you.
How would you respond to...Dr. Charlton: <br />Thank you.<br />How would you respond to the idea that some evil is meant to teach us something? Or is this true of all evil. That is, can any "evil" action be used as a lesson, if approached properly?<br />How does the fact that evil events can cause people to believe in God and Christ, or become better morally, affect the approach to the existence of evil?<br />I guess I'll just assume that:<br />1) Evil exists and is really evil<br />2) You can learn from almost any evil event, but that doesn't make it good.<br /><br />Toddnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-40777224783639179222022-02-10T15:53:02.132+00:002022-02-10T15:53:02.132+00:00It's a great question.
Just pondering this.
...It's a great question. <br />Just pondering this.<br /><br />Genesis 6:5-7<br />"The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-53348561613042018522022-02-10T14:03:29.466+00:002022-02-10T14:03:29.466+00:00@N- I define evil in the post: "Evil is best ...@N- I define evil in the post: "Evil is best understand as opposition to God and to God's creation." Plus many other discussions elsewhere on this blog. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-434878723727186432022-02-10T13:53:01.068+00:002022-02-10T13:53:01.068+00:00What do you mean by Evil?
I often wonder, that th...What do you mean by Evil?<br /><br />I often wonder, that the most suffocating/claustrophobic evil is proliferated by a do-gooder who believes a lie to be true.<br /><br />My short answer to the question.<br />evil arises from lies taken as truth and this *possibility* is created by God.Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.com