tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post594170241616824157..comments2024-03-28T14:16:42.371+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: Because we participate in creating reality - we have an awesome responsibilityBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-67671830000010081672021-02-04T10:17:31.360+00:002021-02-04T10:17:31.360+00:00Just to comment on your 5) Jake and the idea of re...Just to comment on your 5) Jake and the idea of reality being 'One'.<br /><br />I think all life has it's origins in God/Love/Eternity. (not the sentimental type)<br /><br />Real Love grants Freedom. is not possessive. wishes for the good for all life.<br />This can be rejected. and our current earth is occupied and run in my view by those that have rejected it.<br /><br />Unity is not conformity. Real Unity doesn't negate multiplicity. If we let the Will of God take place in us, then real Love on earth increases, and as a result, real freedom. <br /><br />The fake unity and forced morality that is being pushed by the powers-that-should-not-be is the best sign of how opposed to God they are, Which in my view is great because we get to witness it directly, it's like getting hit by the school bully and realising how soft it is. However, if we CHOOSE to continually live in fear of this,<br />then it wins. (this is the big battle)<br /><br />You have to ask yourself, how would one create Real Authentic Individual Human Beings? You do it by giving them the freedom to choose between good and evil<br />on the classroom Earth. (not that we have the freedom as such, because we are born into an evil system at present - which makes it even more challenging)<br /><br />Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-1258351920687365922021-02-04T02:19:47.057+00:002021-02-04T02:19:47.057+00:00Bruce,
Thanks for the clarification.
I should hav...Bruce,<br />Thanks for the clarification. <br />I should have been more clear, and less stream-of-consciousness.<br /><br />My current take on those specific questions:<br />1) We live in a creation<br />2) There is a deity and that deity is a personal God<br />3) Thoughts are real. The current neuroscience/science-of-mind idea that thoughts are epiphenomema is not true based on every thoughtful, honest person's experience.<br />4) The materials world is not the only reality. I have believed for decades that consciousness is primary. One of many reasons why: logic, mathematics, certain basic laws of thought all exist outside of time and outside of the material world.<br />5) This last one is one question I haven't thought about enough. I used to be more of a Platonist, and thought the idea of an eternal, static reality was attractive. Now I do not. The developmental or dynamic model seems closer to my heart now. Your essays have been part of that process of evolution for me.<br /><br />Thank you for humoring my previous stream of scattered thoughts. You are very structured in your thinking and writing. I am attempting to be more disciplined. <br /><br />Jacob Gitteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10559764359800682222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-79143771441119322272021-02-03T20:53:19.032+00:002021-02-03T20:53:19.032+00:00@Jake - Okay - but you need to recognize that is N...@Jake - Okay - but you need to recognize that is Not what I mean in the post. <br /><br />I am talking about the fundamental structure of reality. Our assumptions about whether we live in a creation or a random/ causal process? Whether there is a deity/ Whether that deity is a personal God? Whether thoughts are real and causal - or epiphenomena? Whether the material (perceptible, scientifically detectable, measurable) is the only reality - or whether this is a part of a larger reality? Whether reality is static/ outside of time - or whether reality is dynamic/ developmental. Whether reality was originally one, or many? <br /><br />Such matters. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-8247840652393790822021-02-03T20:43:11.699+00:002021-02-03T20:43:11.699+00:00Though-provoking essay. Thank you, Bruce.
I am now...Though-provoking essay. Thank you, Bruce.<br />I am now assuming that reality is indeed, in a shocking way, "fluid."<br /><br />This example may or may not be a good one, but I was talking to a few men at the local pub. One was fearful of the birdemic. The others, not so much. The one said that a particle of virus would give us all corvid-19.<br />I simply asked, have you ever been in around a family member who had a cold or the flu, and <i>not</i> gotten the cold or flu? Silence.<br /><br />I made a choice early on to not live in fear of the birdemic, and my life diverged noticeably from the lives of others, especially those who lived in mortal fear of the virus.<br />I've been totally healthy for the past year. I do try to get exercise and eat well, etc., but I can't help but think that I was also partly creating my reality. A reality in which I am not constantly threated with deadly corvid particles.<br /><br />I've even succeeded in feeling and experiencing the world as more alive: nature walks are more nuanced. I notice the trees and birds as more present and singular.<br />And it's not "all in my head." The sensory qualities are different. The main thing I am doing differently is making an effort to connect to God and the divine, though I feel I am fumbling in the dark.<br />I'm starting to wonder if reality itself is in some strange, paradoxical state, since the world economy hasn't collapsed, and things seems to be humming along despite the carnage to the human social and cultural life. <br />Sorry for the randomness of my thoughts. Jacob Gitteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10559764359800682222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-8923817298755684972021-02-03T16:14:02.720+00:002021-02-03T16:14:02.720+00:00@RJC - Just to be clear - what I am saying goes fa...@RJC - Just to be clear - what I am saying goes far beyond that, and is not a part of any tradition. It is something new to human society and culture - that has been emerging for a few hundred years, becoming conscious for a couple of hundred years - but remains a very small minority view. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-14755418371168351042021-02-03T15:09:47.271+00:002021-02-03T15:09:47.271+00:00@SF ...Time to get reading and thinking, then.
I&...@SF ...Time to get reading and thinking, then.<br /><br />I've actually discussed this matter in scores of blog posts over the past five years or so - some links to this material has been added. But in overcoming a lifetime of thought-blocking, false and deceptive conditioning - there is no substitute for hard individual work. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-24422144539555083642021-02-03T15:06:58.905+00:002021-02-03T15:06:58.905+00:00In my tradition worry and negativity are affronts ...<br />In my tradition worry and negativity are affronts to G-d for they distort his creations. Core of my days is TRACHT GUT VETZEIN GUT” THINK GOOD & IT’LL BE GOOD. Many though are stymied in the step from faith to trust..... As for science--it has gone from the mode of inquiry from Hume to the American CS Pierce to being understood as the jargon laden declarations officials..R.J.Cavazoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12450048633891439382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-3435595226123385462021-02-03T12:41:38.288+00:002021-02-03T12:41:38.288+00:00@Nat - Yes, that is how I regard such questions in...@Nat - Yes, that is how I regard such questions in an ultimate sense. The asker of such a question as your first comment often has at the back of his mind something like " how would things be if there was nobody around to observe them, or to know them?" <br /><br />And then he gives an answer based on current scientific 'consensus'; and if anyone disagrees labels them as foolish, mad or evil. <br /><br />Whereas such as question is nonsense - as evidenced by the fact that the 'objective' answers keep changing. <br /><br />But this answer sometimes leads to the equally nonsensical assertions of 'relativism' or 'post-modernism' - a kind of Anything Goes, It's whatever I Say it is, attitude. <br /><br />What is needed (for explanatory purposes) is some kind of model or analogy for describing how there is a real-reality that is pre-existent and independent of observers; but that this is incomprehensible, structureless chaos, until known by some consciousness. <br /><br />And this insight leads onto a recognition that this is also creation; that creation is the divine thinking of 'chaos' into knowledge. And this thinking is the attribute of Beings. <br /><br />However, all such explanation is a model and analogy - not the reality itself, which can only be directly apprehended without language, number or any other symbolic representation. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-91974701908066014632021-02-03T12:07:23.787+00:002021-02-03T12:07:23.787+00:00No such thing as reality without consciousness? I ...No such thing as reality without consciousness? I don’t understand that Bruce?Sean fowlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-91855565424072741942021-02-03T12:06:57.198+00:002021-02-03T12:06:57.198+00:00Yes Bruce, what you are highlighting here is what ...Yes Bruce, what you are highlighting here is what I was getting at with my comment on your previous post. <br /><br />'collective-assumptions' as net-evil, yet not even considered to be 'because it's impossible for so many people to go along with it'.Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.com