tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post612108187690870232..comments2024-03-28T17:44:11.289+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: Objective and direct evidence of 'dysgenic' decline in genetic 'g' (IQ)Bruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-34390432203864918132018-01-18T06:52:34.905+00:002018-01-18T06:52:34.905+00:00@rumpole - It is indeed striking. During the theat...@rumpole - It is indeed striking. During the theatre season, the Elizabethans in London would apparently attend two or three plays per week - they were probably the most experienced and sophisticated theatre audience in human history. Which is why they elicited Shakespeare (and others) - they knew the difference between levels of theatrical excellence, they could appreciate Shakespeare at his best, and knew that he had improved from the early plays (which made the improvement worthwhile). Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-32334948141959855582018-01-18T06:35:58.533+00:002018-01-18T06:35:58.533+00:00Snidely - Check out
http://mouseutopia.blogspot....Snidely - Check out <br /><br />http://mouseutopia.blogspot.co.uk/<br /><br />and word search reaction times on this blogBruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-17130686557189259982018-01-17T23:08:37.505+00:002018-01-17T23:08:37.505+00:00I can think of three other mechanisms that would a...I can think of three other mechanisms that would account for the change.<br />Massive kill-off of the upper classes in WWI and II<br />Population replacement by Africans and sub-continentals<br />Selection bias in the original cohort.Snidely Whiplashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00872497020780700411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-28965763207635386142018-01-17T13:11:00.299+00:002018-01-17T13:11:00.299+00:00I have a Juris Doctor post graduate degree. Yet, w...I have a Juris Doctor post graduate degree. Yet, when I watch a Shakespeare play that was written to appeal to an unwashed common Londoner, standing in the open air Globe Theater, the play's dialogue dances on my comprehension horizon. One does not need a reaction test to know that some sort of significant cognitive decline has occurred.rumpole5https://www.blogger.com/profile/13607628501847556362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-35648533768618528522016-04-03T07:54:00.688+01:002016-04-03T07:54:00.688+01:00@BV - Tere is a vast literature n using reaction t...@BV - Tere is a vast literature n using reaction time to measure intelligence going back to the late 1800s and forward to Jensen and nowadays Ian Deary's group in Edinburgh. <br /><br />The great advantage of sRT is that 1. it is an objective physiological measure with a ratio scale measure, <br /><br />http://iqpersonalitygenius.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-ordinal-scale-of-iq-could-be.html<br /><br />and 2. the data goes back a long way. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-60676069714948789052016-04-02T21:37:55.739+01:002016-04-02T21:37:55.739+01:00While I do agree that the general IQ has dropped, ...While I do agree that the general IQ has dropped, I am not so sure that reaction time is what intelligence is best measured with.<br /><br />Is intelligence the speed at which we can detect and react to sensory input? Than I'm sure there are a lot of animal life on Earth way more intelligent than us.<br /><br />Than why are not top athletes also the top scientist? What about care racing. Does this mean Nascar is where geniouses go? <br /><br />Balazs Vargahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02418319520028125685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-64013739658558768972016-04-02T00:11:06.725+01:002016-04-02T00:11:06.725+01:00"Auditory and visual reaction time in athlete..."Auditory and visual reaction time in athletes, healthy controls, and patients of type 1 diabetes mellitus: A comparative study" 2006<br /><br />http://rssdi.in/new/diabetesbulletin/2006/july/IntJDiabDevCtries263112-2695411_072914.pdfTucker Goodrichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09455436946187786398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-20337173498896489042013-07-14T22:06:50.457+01:002013-07-14T22:06:50.457+01:00Have they considered the devastating effect that c...Have they considered the devastating effect that chronic undersleeping has on reaction times? In Victorian era they slept like 9 h/day, now it's more like 7, perhaps even worse for intelligent people. <br /><br />http://www.businessinsider.com/successful-people-who-barely-sleep-2012-9?op=1<br /><br />Andrzej T.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-35797512081813196752012-03-05T02:11:19.254+00:002012-03-05T02:11:19.254+00:00@bgc, I think both neuroscience and information th...@bgc, I think both neuroscience and information theory offer good models that can both quantify measured information and explain why response time slows for computational reasons.<br /><br />This video discusses the slow down in response times as a function of noise due to accumulated learnin'<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPrL0cmJRsChase Saundershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18367661066053842171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-671350494323947092012-03-04T22:16:46.844+00:002012-03-04T22:16:46.844+00:00@CS - okay - I think I get your point.
But I don...@CS - okay - I think I get your point. <br /><br />But I don't know if it is true - and don't know how we would even conceptualise the brain accumulating information, leave aside measure it. It seems more likely that reaction times decline with age because of reducing general intelligence - or perhaps that general intelligence is actually something like the speed of processing which is crudely measured by reaction times.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-432879804414160602012-03-04T21:53:11.815+00:002012-03-04T21:53:11.815+00:00@bgc I was not suggesting that g (general intellig...@bgc I was not suggesting that g (general intelligence) was rising due to acquired information load. I was suggesting that response time could be decreasing because of it.Chase Saundershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18367661066053842171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-40053602250278268652012-03-04T16:57:03.942+00:002012-03-04T16:57:03.942+00:00@CS - I disagree. I think that g reaches its maxim...@CS - I disagree. I think that g reaches its maximum immediately upon full maturity of the central nervous system - after that it may stay the same or decline, but cannot increase.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-6952508793647321512012-03-04T15:52:45.405+00:002012-03-04T15:52:45.405+00:00It is theorized that reaction time in older indivi...It is theorized that reaction time in older individuals is due to larger amount of information accumulated -- I think a neuroscientist would say the increased noise from accumulated background information would guarantee a slower response time.<br /><br />It stands to reason this isn't directly due to age, but simply due to the total load of information accumulated by an individual brain. It also stands to reason that modern people accumulate much higher volumes of information at earlier ages. Thus, this could also be a phenotopic, rather than a genetic, phenomenon.Chase Saundershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18367661066053842171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-65190979266746741452012-03-01T19:40:07.327+00:002012-03-01T19:40:07.327+00:00@dearieme - that kind of comment will get you bann...@dearieme - that kind of comment will get you banned...<br /><br />But seriously folks, I wonder. As I read Clark's argument, it does not seem to apply to the aristocracy (who were Normans) - the men of whom suffered tremendous mortality rates from war, tournaments etc - as to the middle classes; who were Anglo-Saxons. <br /><br />But probably that level of precision is not possible. The main take home message I got was that in the old days differential mortality was much more important than differential fertility.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-9819198658956541292012-03-01T19:19:02.911+00:002012-03-01T19:19:02.911+00:00"Over a few dozen generations the population ..."Over a few dozen generations the population in many stable agricultural societies became almost replaced by children of the 'middle classes' of crafstmen and the literate": may I just point out, Bruce, that this phenomenon considerably increases the chances that you and I are mainly of Norman descent?deariemenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-54676336302181677012012-03-01T16:03:18.703+00:002012-03-01T16:03:18.703+00:00@J - Silverman mentions this theory in the paper -...@J - Silverman mentions this theory in the paper - but this doesn't really doesn't have anything to do with intelligence variations or with reaction times. <br /><br />Intelligence is mostly hereditary but can be dragged-down by significant illnesses, diseases etc, and reaction times the same. <br /><br />There is no known way to enhance real, underlying 'g' (distinct from improving performance on specific types of cognitive tests - which is itself much more difficult to do than most people realize). <br /><br />The history of claims to have to enhanced general intelligence by particular interventions is a history of environmental irreproducible results, selective reporting, incompetence, dishonesty, wishful thinking, fraud and mis-representation.<br /><br />See The Raising of Intelligence by HH Spitz.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-78079645954866797132012-03-01T15:39:44.831+00:002012-03-01T15:39:44.831+00:00I dont know if it is relevant but fast paced movie...I dont know if it is relevant but fast paced movies and computer games were supposed to make the new generation much faster on the uptake and reduce reaction time. <br /><br />I find that early movies are terribly slow and over-acted, while moder movies are exceedingly fast so that it makes it difficult for me to follow. However the environmental neurotoxin explanation seems difficult to prove.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05676167615981895061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-74268035595490521452012-03-01T14:22:05.593+00:002012-03-01T14:22:05.593+00:00@Kristor - yes, men have higher g, on average, in ...@Kristor - yes, men have higher g, on average, in most populations (although, of course, it would be possible to engineer selective scenarios in which thsi was not the case). <br /><br />Silverman comments that the sample of women (much smaller than that of men) was likely to be exceptionally selective for faster reaction times - the reactions times for Galton's women are way-way shorter than in modern populations - so the average M-F difference was probably larger than Galton measured.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-84279001062309673392012-03-01T14:18:54.976+00:002012-03-01T14:18:54.976+00:00@Gyan - I don't think it was restricted to NW ...@Gyan - I don't think it was restricted to NW Europe - I presume it applied to East Asia, for example. <br /><br />But it may be that only England has a full enough historical record to be able to measure it.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-10509222614122404772012-03-01T08:58:14.906+00:002012-03-01T08:58:14.906+00:00Why was the Farewell to Arms phenomena
restricted...Why was the Farewell to Arms phenomena <br />restricted to NW Europe?Gyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09941686166886986037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-46534255085585798962012-03-01T08:33:31.377+00:002012-03-01T08:33:31.377+00:00I note that in all the tests, men had faster react...I note that in all the tests, men had faster reaction times than women. Does this mean men have more g than women?kristorhttp://orthosphere.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-70410962692710106142012-03-01T07:18:04.467+00:002012-03-01T07:18:04.467+00:00@Scott L - If by eugenics you mean selective infan...@Scott L - If by eugenics you mean selective infanticide of abnormal newborns, I think you are probably correct to a significant extent. <br /><br />However, the phenomenon described here probably began from about 1800 when child mortality rates began to drop. Until then almost all the children of the poor would die (from infections or starvation) and/ or fail to reproduce - as Gregory Clark describes in Farewell to Alms. Over a few dozen generations the population in many stable agricultural societies became almost replaced by children of the 'middle classes' of crafstmen and the literate.<br /><br />After this there was a collapse of fertility among the wealthy, educated and intelligent - driven by developments in contraception and greater use of abortion - which continues.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-48162262018001989842012-03-01T07:11:21.376+00:002012-03-01T07:11:21.376+00:00Comment from Scott Locklin:
"Two words nobod...Comment from Scott Locklin:<br /><br />"Two words nobody wants to talk about: "outbreeding selection." Also, Eugenics was practised by the masses until 1950 or so."Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-80843424986479862552012-03-01T06:25:14.658+00:002012-03-01T06:25:14.658+00:00bgc,
I am not arguing for asceticism nor for Puri...bgc, <br />I am not arguing for asceticism nor for Puritanism.<br /><br />My point is specific to the IQ research. Essentially my suspicion is that people in this field do not think with the Church. This is important since it is not physics but a science studying humans. An error in the basic anthropology has potentially disastrous effect on the conclusions.Gyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09941686166886986037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-64949613415179566982012-03-01T05:46:33.308+00:002012-03-01T05:46:33.308+00:00@Joseph - yes, it is an ecological phenomenon (...@Joseph - yes, it is an ecological phenomenon ('the ecological fallacy' is a version of it). <br /><br />But there is more than a century's worth of evidence connecting reaction times with general intelligence. At the same time, nothing in science, or in biology, especially not in human psychology is logically entailed. <br /><br />But if reaction times-IQ is rejected as scientifically insecure, then to be consistent in the application of this standard of proof, that would lead to the rejection of a very large amount of other science too - pretty much the whole of psychology.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.com