tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post6516681531905852514..comments2024-03-28T21:32:26.550+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: Things are 'coming to a point' in the Church of England Bruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-25863317621284790272013-01-09T16:55:17.936+00:002013-01-09T16:55:17.936+00:00As far as I can tell continuing churches are prett...As far as I can tell continuing churches are pretty much exclusively Anglo-Catholic here too. I think most accept the thirty-nine articles but interpret them in the most Catholic way possible.<br /> Continuuing Churches are probably dying here in the U.S. too. My bishop would burn me at the stake for saying so but it’s probably true. They are old and cannot attract many families. For most of the time we’ve been at our parish, we’ve been the only family. The few children there are mostly brought by grandparents. I don’t see much evidence that it’s much different elsewhere. If your parish has poor teaching or practice, there is usually nowhere else to go. We are considering the Anglican Ordinariate.<br />Bruce B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-15628742125203047562013-01-09T14:27:34.450+00:002013-01-09T14:27:34.450+00:00@BB - I think there are different reasons wrt Cons...@BB - I think there are different reasons wrt Conservative Evangelicals and Anglo Catholics.<br /><br />I am not sure, but I think that Continuing Anglicans are exclusively an Anglo-Catholic phenomenon in the UK, and because that style of Anglicanism is in decline, none of the Continuing Anglican groups in the UK seem to be healthy.<br /><br />A lot of the serious Christians among Anglo-Catholics have, over the past few decades, left ether for Rome or Orthodoxy - more have left for Rome since the Ordinariate; and the remainder really are not in a position to set up as 'proper' churches, but can only survive (for how long?) with infrequent Eucharistic services from visiting priests. <br /><br />But the Conservative Evangelical Anglicans value their solid basis in the Thirty Nine Articles of Cranmer's BCP.<br /><br />So they want to remain Anglicans (if possible) and can fairly simply do so as long as there are a few sound Bishops somewhere in the world who will travel to oversee them, perform ordinations and confirmations etc. <br /><br />My own church has a minister who was ordained outside of the usual structure by the Bishop of the Southern Cone. <br /><br />There is now apparently only one Conservative Anglican Evangelical theological college (Oak Hill, in London) - but I understand the Bishops are prepared to ordain people (of proven aptitude and character) who have gained their training by informal apprenticeship rather than by attending theological college.<br /><br />In sum, I don't see any compelling reason why serious Protestants would *need* to leave the Anglican communion as well as the Church of England.<br /><br />And if they (we, I should say) stay within the Anglican fold, then perhaps at some time we can take-back the Church of England from the pseudo-Christian Liberal wreckers.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-10064849841809780882013-01-09T13:50:24.290+00:002013-01-09T13:50:24.290+00:00Giles Fraser's comments strike me as being tot...Giles Fraser's comments strike me as being totally un-christian.<br /><br />Contrast his comments with this very good sermon from Jonathan Berry who, though not a Bishop, is vulnerable to this particular sin:-<br /><br />http://www.fordslane.org.uk/sermons/121125%20am%20JOnathan%20Berry%20-%20True%20Freedom%20Trust.mp3stephensnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-33384833242834771582013-01-09T13:14:39.468+00:002013-01-09T13:14:39.468+00:00As a Continuuing Anglican, one thing I don’t under...As a Continuuing Anglican, one thing I don’t understand is why it is considered so important to stay in the Anglican Communion. Yes, there’s a shared history and it’s nice to have concrete ties to Canterbury but Anglicanism doesn’t have a Pope and sees One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church as at least somewhat of a spiritual abstraction as opposed to a concrete Ecclesial structure.Bruce B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-33445461749030912742013-01-09T06:06:06.878+00:002013-01-09T06:06:06.878+00:00@D. Well said!
@ivvenalis - I think they will sta...@D. Well said!<br /><br />@ivvenalis - I think they will stay in the Anglican Communion, and I hope that real Christians will flock to place themselves under such Bishops. This is, indeed, already happening informally among conservative evangelicals in the Anglican community who ask such Bishops to ordain their pastors (rejecting the local Bishop).<br /><br />But this may become formalized: real Anglican Christians (on the Protestant side) may formally leave the Church of England but remain Anglicans under African (or other non-English) Bishops. <br /><br />Real Christians on the Catholic side will leave and join the Anglican Ordinariate, or make arrangements with an Orthodox Church - however the Anglo-Catholic wing is very weak now, and has indeed been corrupted by personal conflicts of interest on exactly this issue of sexuality - one *suspects* that threats of blackmail (from Liberals) may have been used to ensure the compliance of Anglo Catholic clergy whose own position is hypocritical and compromised.<br /><br />Another factor is that Conservative Evangelical Anglicans are thriving and can afford to pay for new buildings and the salaries of their ministers; while this is not the case for Anglo Catholics.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-66569309290651750122013-01-09T04:17:56.972+00:002013-01-09T04:17:56.972+00:00Ah yes, the Holy Gospel of Freud.
The hits just k...Ah yes, the Holy Gospel of Freud.<br /><br />The hits just kept coming. How much longer do you think Archbishop Ntagali or his successor will stay in the Anglican Communion? <br /><br />One thing to note, which ties into what you've been saying about resistance: when the Anglicans refused to disallow gay priests i.e. to acknowledge that homosexuality is a sin, of course it didn't stop there. Now instead of being called bigots, they are being called enemies of the truth. <br /><br />Another: Now that the hated Church has accepted his premise that homosexuality is not a sin, Fraser--although he does have to qualify a bit--goes further and says _deceit is not a sin_. At least not a sin when it's being used to justify sexual sins.ivvenalisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-65618901255545936492013-01-09T00:00:01.784+00:002013-01-09T00:00:01.784+00:00That contrast defeats comment. How do you underlin...That contrast defeats comment. How do you underline Giles Fraser's commitment to corruption and lies? The underlining is already there. He is gloating. How do you make Stanley Ntagali's Christian steadfastness any plainer? He has made it as plain as a man can.<br /><br />What else can you add? I've got thoughts, but the clash between good and evil is so important that switching the topic to anything else would be obscuring the point.Daybreakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-71868780857469975342013-01-08T19:46:32.383+00:002013-01-08T19:46:32.383+00:00@JP - Absolutely. Where does one start? But one st...@JP - Absolutely. Where does one start? But one striking aspect is that it is written as if the last 45 years had not happened. Yet what was theoretical 45 years ago is now a matter of knowledge and experience.<br /><br />Such insatiable lust for destruction, immune to its own consequences, is indeed Satanic. But, until recently this aspect - doubtless present - was rather carefully masked and muted (at least in public) - whereas over the past few weeks it has become strident, aggressive, unashamed - unmistakable.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-9900968942531987732013-01-08T18:46:51.181+00:002013-01-08T18:46:51.181+00:00There are so many things wrong with that Fraser pi...There are so many things wrong with that Fraser piece, it's hard to know where to begin. It is a perfect inversion of truth and virtue, proposed as the acme of truth and virtue -- such a thing could have been written by Satan himself! JPnoreply@blogger.com