tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post6740351311287432159..comments2024-03-29T11:51:21.473+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: Science has always just assumed, thereby ignoring, metaphysicsBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-9529324352236565282022-03-24T10:19:20.005+00:002022-03-24T10:19:20.005+00:00There's more on this whole subject in R G Coll...There's more on this whole subject in R G Collingwood's <i>Essay on Metaphysics</i> (OUP)william arthurshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16447813388196156894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-62955956165644128812022-03-24T06:52:27.153+00:002022-03-24T06:52:27.153+00:00@Crosbie - I have lived in Scotland a good deal, s...@Crosbie - I have lived in Scotland a good deal, so I may well have picked it up there. But Collins was originally a Scottish publisher, and maybe they are being partisan in claiming the word!Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-84396567815114702732022-03-24T05:40:26.486+00:002022-03-24T05:40:26.486+00:00'Outwith' is a great word. The claim it i...'Outwith' is a great word. The claim it is Scottish is odd. How do the (other) English get by without it?<br /><br /><a href="https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/outwith" rel="nofollow">https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/outwith</a>Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02005295490663931940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-49956965573072474262022-03-23T15:54:27.052+00:002022-03-23T15:54:27.052+00:00@T - It requires a powerfully motivating personal ...@T - It requires a powerfully motivating personal ethic of truth seeking and truthfulness - and no group in the world (only a few individuals) have that nowadays. So whether this happens depends on the religion. <br /><br />That is necessary, but far from sufficient, for the development of science. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-44285344080928497612022-03-23T15:14:34.831+00:002022-03-23T15:14:34.831+00:00Dr. C,
Would it possible for "noble pagans,&...Dr. C,<br /><br />Would it possible for "noble pagans," as alluded to by Faculty X, to also originate, or maintain, what we think of as science (the science that began in earnest in the 16th century)?<br />Will the Chinese, for example, be able to do it? I have my doubts...Toddnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-66302917023989694892022-03-23T12:35:01.566+00:002022-03-23T12:35:01.566+00:00Thanks Nova! The subject has been a particular con...Thanks Nova! The subject has been a particular concern of mine, at a deep and personal level; and I have not been satisfied by the other accounts of the matter I have come across (whether from the Christian or Science or Philosophical sides). So I needed to work it through for myself. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-37010175687347707312022-03-23T11:58:05.789+00:002022-03-23T11:58:05.789+00:00I've been reading various bloggers and essayis...I've been reading various bloggers and essayists for decades. Nobody has ever before articulated the relationship between science, Christianity and truth which such coherence and economy. Bravo Dr. Charlton. This gem of a post deserves to be saved and shared.Stephen Macdonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13474300559219020772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-26044556821267197762022-03-23T06:18:26.287+00:002022-03-23T06:18:26.287+00:00FX. I think the Truth motivation was probably the ...FX. I think the Truth motivation was probably the same but applied differently. Science emerged from philosophy as applying Truth attitudes to parts of the observable World, to "problems".Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-8041810629402264432022-03-23T00:52:13.014+00:002022-03-23T00:52:13.014+00:00
The ending of Truth as the primary value has dest...<br />The ending of Truth as the primary value has destroyed any real pursuit of Truth or any finding and revealing of New Truths. <br /><br />How do you distinguish Truth as the foundational principle from the influence of Christianity versus the values of Plato or the Greeks with their emphasis on Truth, Beauty, and Virtue? Faculty Xnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-64968011045795592202022-03-22T21:27:34.730+00:002022-03-22T21:27:34.730+00:00@Avro - "I have never seen the Science-as-a-p...@Avro - "I have never seen the Science-as-a-product-of-Christianity case so powerfully articulated."<br /><br />Thanks - that is why I wrote this blog post - despite having written about the subject many times before. There were a couple of points I haven't made before - but mostly this post is a different way of selecting and arranging things I have said before...<br /><br />Yet, I think this was worth doing - not least because You found it helpful! <br /><br />But in a broader sense, there are better and worse, clearer and more confused, more concise or more detailed ways of explaining 'the same thing' - some work for some people - others for other people; and the process also deepens my own understanding. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-33358986032022625822022-03-22T19:27:07.506+00:002022-03-22T19:27:07.506+00:00@Avro - The traditionalist type of Eastern Orthodo...@Avro - The traditionalist type of Eastern Orthodoxy would agree with your second comment - and would 'blame' science on the direction taken by Western Catholicism at the Great Schism, with the dominant role of scholastic philosophy. <br /><br />But if, as I now believe, human consciousness has developed through the centuries under divine influence, then Man was meant to confront and overcome the very real challenges posed by philosophy then science. <br /><br />Such developments bring potential spiritual benefits to do with the enhancement of self-awareness and therefore agency (which are divine attributes)- as well as hazards; and the net result depends on the choices Men make. <br /><br />In other words; if Western Men had made the right choices, then then problems would have been just a temporary phase, and Christianity would have emerged stronger than ever. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-14859548035136556212022-03-22T18:03:38.409+00:002022-03-22T18:03:38.409+00:00…or was science always just a species of demonic m...…or was science always just a species of demonic magic that served Christ as long as it had to but always with an eye out for its chance to escape the bounds of Godly restraint?Avro Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-82078270304571789892022-03-22T17:11:52.266+00:002022-03-22T17:11:52.266+00:00Thank you for this clarifying post. I have never s...Thank you for this clarifying post. I have never seen the Science-as-a-product-of-Christianity case so powerfully articulated. <br /><br />You write:<br /><br />"Instead of seeking and speaking Truth; modern 'science' serves and is motivated-by... whatever happen to be the dominant secular goals; which have been ever-increasingly to do with the demands of leftist and totalitarian politics."<br /><br />When science served Christ its object, like that of its master, was Truth and liberation. Now that it serves Satan its object, like that of its new master, is power and enslavement.Avro Gnoreply@blogger.com