tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post6788476208228230012..comments2024-03-18T20:18:04.114+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: The modern West is *not* recapitulating the decline of the Western Roman EmpireBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-19401549310380295862014-09-14T06:15:19.607+01:002014-09-14T06:15:19.607+01:00Have a look at the religion of Mazdakism and the f...Have a look at the religion of Mazdakism and the fall of the Persian empire. It's actually more like this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-2207770681015476152014-07-10T19:41:27.473+01:002014-07-10T19:41:27.473+01:00@Imn - But I infer that you see apostasy as just a...@Imn - But I infer that you see apostasy as just an exacerbating factor; but I see the Western Empire as being overwhelmed, while the modern West is destroying itself deliberately. <br /><br />(Of course, I am leaving out here the role of declining intelligence. This would not be causing the kind of collapse we are discussing, because 'dysgenic change' applies pretty much everywhere - and the West retains overwhelming technical and military superiority.)Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-21042036269591842882014-07-10T18:28:14.281+01:002014-07-10T18:28:14.281+01:00@Bruce
I consider Christianity very important.
I...@Bruce<br /><br />I consider Christianity very important.<br /><br /><i>I believe that the Roman Empire survived the fall of Rome for so very long ultimately due to strength of Christian faith. There is nothing equivalent in modernity.</i><br /><br />Of course, this time the fall will be faster and more catastrophic because of lack of Christian faith, nihilism and self-hate.Imnobodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-15910809020232067752014-07-10T05:46:11.190+01:002014-07-10T05:46:11.190+01:00@Im and H - A lot hinges on how important you cons...@Im and H - A lot hinges on how important you consider Christianity to be - and whether the difference between a vigorously growing Christianity and a dwindling Christianity is significant. <br /><br />I believe that the Roman Empire survived the fall of Rome for so very long ultimately due to strength of Christian faith. There is nothing equivalent in modernity. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-67687381211347686782014-07-09T22:37:09.826+01:002014-07-09T22:37:09.826+01:00You need to look at the last century or so of the ...You need to look at the last century or so of the Roman Republic for an accurate comparison to what's happening today--from the Gracchi forward. That's where you'll find the parallels. And they are many.Hughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-78631972041673510352014-07-09T19:48:36.643+01:002014-07-09T19:48:36.643+01:00I may be mistaken but I agree with deconstructing ...I may be mistaken but I agree with deconstructing leftism. The parallels are strong with the late 1st century or so.<br /><br />- Affluent society and High quality of life. Check.<br />- Luxury. Check.<br />- Hedonism and promiscuity. Check.<br />- Abandonment of old religion. Check.<br />- Abandonment of old patriarchal customs. Check.<br />- Abandonment of old military spirit. Check.<br />- Professional army (since Caius Marius) with lots of immigrants (later). Check .<br />- Immigration and multiculturalism. Check.<br />- Rampant divorce. Check.<br />- Secular ideologies (stoicism, etc). Check<br />- A populace that can live without working (panem). Check.<br />- A populace whose life is centered on entertainment (circenses). Check.<br /><br />About your three differences:<br /><br />1. The Roman Empire economy sustained an "extra" population that disappeared when it collapsed.<br /><br />2. The old Roman religion was a shadow of its former shelf.<br /><br />3. I agree with you. This is unprecedented. Roman people did not hate their culture and they did not did anything intentional to destroy it. For me, this is the most important difference.<br /> <br /><br />Imnobodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-42167027797009477092014-07-09T15:56:36.739+01:002014-07-09T15:56:36.739+01:00@dl - I wasn't just 'getting at you' w...@dl - I wasn't just 'getting at you' with this post! But I had been commenting somewhere on exactly this topic. <br /><br />The whole business of the end of Rome is fascinating and hard to understand. I often visit museums of Roman history, and was at one just yesterday. On the one hand, the end of Rome the city was not the end of the Roman Empire. But from an English perspective, it might as well have been. <br /><br />The withdrawal of the legions precipitated what must have been one of the most extraordinary collapses of world history. Within not very long the economy and way of life of England had collapsed, the place had suffered multiple invasions (death, rape, enslavement and the rest), literacy had gone - and after a couple of hundred years even the memory of Rome had apparently disappeared altogether (the Roman ruins were assumed to be the work of 'giants). It was as if 400 years of Roman occupation had never been. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-26710053154827047842014-07-09T14:39:45.380+01:002014-07-09T14:39:45.380+01:00As I was writing my previous comment I remembered ...As I was writing my previous comment I remembered this was a common and much mocked trope of conservative Christians in the 1970's, at least in the US. I'll stick with my idea, though. If you look at the late 1st century the parallels are stronger. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com