tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post7478544792532702764..comments2024-03-29T14:41:00.974+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: The fake insight of the cycle of civilisationBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-11219059043269066672018-02-11T08:31:45.402+00:002018-02-11T08:31:45.402+00:00@CCL - "religion creates civilization by maki...@CCL - "religion creates civilization by making the military possible".<br /><br />Good point. I suppose the original military unit is the clan of genetically related men who have been raised together, but above that relgion is necessary.<br /><br />""Socialists" often forget that humans aren't ants or bees. They have totally different reproductive capabilities and thus entirely different instincts. "<br /><br />Yes, however, one response has been the attempt mentally to cripple people so that they lose their reproductive instincts and interests. This has always gone on to some extent - currently psychopharmacology is one agent for it. <br /><br />Of course, it is politically self-defeating to make a society cohere and be odedient by destroying mass capability and insticts; but if the ultimate aim is evil (ie anti-Good, ie negative and destructive) then such contradiction need not matter. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-68307848970804016022018-02-11T08:20:22.504+00:002018-02-11T08:20:22.504+00:00@CCL. Thta is true; but it seems we must order tho...@CCL. Thta is true; but it seems we must order those things we care about - otherwise a minor care may usurp a major purpose. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-15607898263199723872018-02-11T06:23:37.646+00:002018-02-11T06:23:37.646+00:00We leave out a crucial step when we fail to mentio...We leave out a crucial step when we fail to mention that religion creates civilization by making the military possible. It is the military that actually creates civilization, and the key to a military is gathering together men to go and fight people who are <i>dangerous</i> rather than those who are helpless. A group of men who, all else being equal, would pick on the helpless rather than the dangerous are just bandits, not a military, they have no power to create civilization.<br /><br />And without religion it is impossible to gather enough men together to form a military. Only insane (or perhaps we should just call them extremely eccentric) men will fight dangerous foes rather than helpless ones for any reason that is not fundamentally religious. The rarity of such men is not the central problem, no matter how many of them you can find, making a military out of them is fundamentally impossible (like trying to command an army of spiders).<br /><br />"Socialists" often forget that humans aren't ants or bees. They have totally different reproductive capabilities and thus entirely different instincts. While the formalized faith of the 'civilized' often sneers at the 'irreligious' character of the typical military man (who is <i>not</i> an officer), fighting men are deeply religious by nature reinforced by experience if they live long.Chiu ChunLinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03519192610708043962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-72584569684947056362018-02-11T06:02:06.928+00:002018-02-11T06:02:06.928+00:00There is quite a difference between seeing somethi...There is quite a difference between seeing something as a means to an end, especially an unbounded or eternal end, and not caring about it <i>at all</i>.<br /><br />Of course I'm saying this as someone who doesn't have any ultimate ends at all, but it really should hold true for anyone that is not profoundly hedonistic and mistakes all present enjoyments for ends in themselves.Chiu ChunLinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03519192610708043962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-77005084654673233602018-02-08T19:56:38.497+00:002018-02-08T19:56:38.497+00:00For my part, I have for quite a few years - since ...For my part, I have for quite a few years - since I gave the question any serious thought at all really - been inclined to view civilization as essentially a byproduct of religion. Specifically, of organized religion, as individual spiritual experiences of a more shamanistic type do not entail a high degree of communal activity in the first place, nor foment a shared notion of ideal cosmic/divinely ordained order amongst a community, this probably being the most important requirement for a population to work towards bringing what we know as Civilization into being; and being motivated to sustain one, once it exists. <br /><br />Contemporary thought seems to get this issue precisely backwards, though - like many other important matters, so I suppose there is no surprise there. I would like to nominate Göbekli Tepe as an obvious counter to the mainstream presumption that organized religion is in some way dependent on civilization for its existence, rather than the reverse.Hrothgarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03568010718085328982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-43185395417641188312018-02-08T17:47:40.891+00:002018-02-08T17:47:40.891+00:00Or will you join that nameless tribe
Of those who ...Or will you join that nameless tribe<br />Of those who reckon Right and Might?<br />And in their sullen village find<br />Not totem-poles, but heads on pikes:<br />Upon each pike an Emperor's head<br />Beneath a sky the colour of lead.<br /><br />And there, in answer to our questions<br />Of how to heal a ravaged Empire<br />The heads of all the creeds and nations<br />Will speak aloud with one refrain:<br /><br />"What is Empire? Merely foam<br />On the swirl of thirteen seasons<br />Scarce observed by mortal men;<br />A deception of deceptions,<br />While the true and right decrees<br />Are acted far outside our narrow ken."Seijio Arakawahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02615803270163614513noreply@blogger.com