tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post7943607275256528562..comments2024-03-29T11:18:17.285+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: The Hieratic Society and Original ParticipationBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-53422870125756801642015-10-22T15:06:16.642+01:002015-10-22T15:06:16.642+01:00Bruce, exception noted. I really love John. There ...Bruce, exception noted. I really love John. There is something very special about him.<br /><br />I guess in particular I think of Peter as having underwent an extraordinary change.<br />Bruce B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-18122837374102898602015-10-22T13:57:55.032+01:002015-10-22T13:57:55.032+01:00@BB - With the exception of John - who attended th...@BB - With the exception of John - who attended the crucifixion and was given care of Mary.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-79859848934881307492015-10-22T11:59:34.103+01:002015-10-22T11:59:34.103+01:00Mr. Brockman,
The disciples seemed pretty awful p...Mr. Brockman,<br /><br />The disciples seemed pretty awful pre- resurrection. It’s only after the resurrection that they seem extraordinary.Bruce B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-12050831467479694142015-10-22T10:16:42.800+01:002015-10-22T10:16:42.800+01:00I believe that kind of `life immersion` is a part ...I believe that kind of `life immersion` is a part of the outer world in such a society, whereas what you refer to with regards to individual responsibility is an internal issue. I dont think there is any contradiction here; child like immersion in life is (should be?) the natural state of man, but even as you are personally drawn towards it I dont doubt you introspect deeply as well, giving you further appreciation of that innocent surrender to existence. I dont doubt that the messianic society will be a return (albeit perfected) to a previous, functional mode of existence rather than something totally new and unprecedented. A family is a hierarchical unit as well. Love makes the difference, not lack of hierarchy.Luqmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12144548172937229260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-27859119274824479662015-10-22T00:57:29.713+01:002015-10-22T00:57:29.713+01:00"however, Jesus Christ is our Brother - and t..."however, Jesus Christ is our Brother - and the difference between us is truly vast - but not qualitative."<br /><br />This is the secret.<br /><br />Jesus was able to take a small band of ordinary scum (his disciples) and uplift them to very close to his level. This was why the Pharisees had Jesus killed: he exposed the reality that they were all about making themselves look pious and important, rather than doing their job of attending to the spiritual advancement of the people in the region.<br /><br />It was always Jesus's intention that we ultimately operate at his level. I am concerned that many Christians believe that Jesus is so far above them that they can never reach him -- but the whole point of the exercise was to demonstrate what was possible.Robert Brockman IInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-15708847587455454062015-10-21T15:12:14.171+01:002015-10-21T15:12:14.171+01:00I will have to reread John this time paying attent...I will have to reread John this time paying attention to the idea of friendship with Christ.<br />I think union with Christ also means Christ in us. This is the sacramental view. I am asking because I am just curious how your views compare and contrast with mine.<br />Bruce B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-62892919339912906852015-10-21T14:12:27.884+01:002015-10-21T14:12:27.884+01:00@BB - I suppose I mean that 'united' does ...@BB - I suppose I mean that 'united' does NOT mean in any sense 'fused with' - but rather 'on a par with' - or 'at the same level as' - and 'in perfect accord with'. <br /><br />From this perspective, to want to be 'fused with' Christ is *rather like* wanting to return to the state of early childhood when a baby does not see itself as separate from his mother - whereas my understanding of the broad sweep of the Christian message and specific reading of (for example) John's Gospel, is that Christ tells his disciples that he loves them as friends (not servants) - implying at least aspiring to the degree of similarity which necessarily prevails among friends. <br /><br />Friends are, of course, distinct - we can only have a loving relationship when there are distinct persons. <br /><br />So a mature adult spirituality would not aspire (as a final goal) to be 'absorbed' (with loss of self) into Christ, or God the Father. It would instead be the most perfectly loving and harmonious imaginable human relationship - 'union' in that sense.<br /><br />The contrast would then be between the ultimate perfection of love between mother and baby, compared with the ultimate perfection of love between older and younger adult brothers.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-64449118941284395852015-10-21T13:10:44.052+01:002015-10-21T13:10:44.052+01:00Is there any sense of union with Christ in your un...Is there any sense of union with Christ in your understanding of Christianity? That we become something different in our relationship with God when we are united with his son?Bruce B.noreply@blogger.com