tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post8340158598570964374..comments2024-03-28T21:32:26.550+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: What is the role of Hobbits in the destiny of Middle Earth? A theory by Billy Charlton and Bruce CharltonBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-83953392500915818162021-01-04T02:47:14.574+00:002021-01-04T02:47:14.574+00:00I really appreciate these Tolkien posts.I really appreciate these Tolkien posts.Joseph A.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-12277609629371279442021-01-03T14:29:38.732+00:002021-01-03T14:29:38.732+00:00@DM - True.
I rewatched the movies just last wee...@DM - True. <br /><br />I rewatched the movies just last week, and while there are some really great moments (especially in the first and third - the TT is much less good) it is at a much lower level than the book - including a lower level of ambition. <br /><br />I agree about the pathetic Gondorian soldiers; but the Riders of Rohan are even worse until the magnificent cavalry charge on the Battle of Pellenor, which may be my favourite scene of any movie. <br /><br />The society of Rohan is a fairly simple, illiterate, warrior society, built on courage and panache; every boy and man trained to fight and many of the women. But for all their early scenes and through Helm's Deep, the Rohirrim are portrayed as fearful, drab, depressed, plagued by doubts; and a lot of ranting, sobbing, running and screaming...<br /><br />This is of-a-piece with the movies' compulsive insertion of 'pork pie peril', and fake suspense - leading to plot-loops (Aragorn falling off the cliff and dying - then not, Arwen going to the Grey Havens - then not, Arwen dying - then not, Ents deciding not to attack Isengard then suddenly changing mind etc). <br /><br />In sum; while I rated the LotR movies very high when I first saw them, they get downscaled every time I re-view. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-63250258458702314472021-01-03T13:45:59.065+00:002021-01-03T13:45:59.065+00:00No doubt, hobbits in generally were as you describ...No doubt, hobbits in generally were as you describe, a people with limited experience of the world, and unashamed of their provincialism. Typical English peasants, with loyalties to kin and village, and little beyond that. True, there are some stories out of the old days, of hobbit archers fighting for Arthedain, but that has very little to do with their life now, and is more like legend.<br /><br />But the Scouring of the Shire was a moment when ALL the hobbits had their moment to fight for Good. Yes, they were led by Merry and Pippin, and it was the return of the battle-hardened hobbits that set the avalanche moving (just like the Ents) but the people themselves rose up and did the fighting. This was one of my objections to Peter Jackson's movies; not just that he omitted this scene, and deprived hobbits of their moment of heroism, but that he applied the same limited focus to ALL the ordinary people of Middle Earth.<br /><br />Only the heroes, and that pretty much amounts to Aragorn and Gandalf, are able to do much of anything. Instead of everyone recognizing the stakes and doing their utmost to fight the Enemy, we have Denethor hiding in his room, soldiers of Gondor scurrying away, and lots of shots of cowering women and children. No one fights, no one decides, everyone is just useless until the hero arrives to save the day. The hobbits of the Shire get it worse than anyone, because the whole War of the Ring takes place and they're still the same stupid bumpkins at the end that they were in the beginning. They don't even appreciate Pippin, Merry, Sam or Frodo when they return, and the 4 friends are eventually left sitting in the bar, silent over their traumatic shared past, like outcast Vietnam vets.<br /><br />The book made it clear that no-one was left untouched and unchanged by what happened. Even people who didn't march with the army had a job to do and a choice to make. Heroism was business of everyone, not just the gifted and elevated.Dr. Mabusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04190706197508265132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-13428834968246202052021-01-03T09:54:22.297+00:002021-01-03T09:54:22.297+00:00@AD - Thanks.
I would not argue against Sam'...@AD - Thanks. <br /><br />I would not argue against Sam's extreme importance - but Frodo had to be the Ring bearer because Sam could never have cooperated with Gollum and obtain that vital 'help' in getting into Mordor. And if Gollum had not been present at the cracks of doom, as Gandalf foresaw, it is hard to imagine Sam being able to do the necessary. <br /><br />Frodo was the mecessary middle term between Sam and Gollum. <br /><br />I know the Rankin Bass movie; which is of course very flawed in many ways. But its heart is in the right place, and it does have its moments - as you say. And I much prefer it to the 1978 first half of LotR, which I find painfully unwatchable. <br /><br /><br /><br /> Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-48397423918004651962021-01-03T09:23:27.739+00:002021-01-03T09:23:27.739+00:00It always seemed strange to me that the Hobbits ha...It always seemed strange to me that the Hobbits had come into existence after the loss of the One Ring. Now it seems obvious that they were Eru's "Ringers" who were intended to destroy the One Ring all along. Everything about them - their stealth, their love of simple pleasures, their resistance to Dark Magic and the Ring's influence - was designed to have them perform that one task. (One could argue that Samwise was the most important to the mission in the end, as he was able to protect Frodo and keep him going when the One Ring was weighing him down. He was humbler and lower born than Frodo, so it makes sense that he would be "purer" and more resistant to the Ring's effects.)<br /><br />A lot of people don't like the Rankin/Bass <i>Return of the King</i> cartoon from 1980, but I liked one thing about it - at the end, Gandalf predicts that the Hobbits will grow taller over time and will eventually blend back into the human race. It makes sense to me. Their job as Ringbearers was done, so they no longer needed to be small, stealthy and resistant to magic. They would just have the same normal selection pressures shaping them that other mortal humans would have, and so would end up in the same place eventually. I don't think this idea is canon, but it's one that appealed to me.Amethyst Dominicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13225794541516204079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-76025903670599416342021-01-02T22:33:39.946+00:002021-01-02T22:33:39.946+00:00Karl - Very apposite.
We must, however, realise t...Karl - Very apposite.<br /><br />We must, however, realise that T was not idealising Hobbite - and went to lengths to show that *normal*, average Hobbits (Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin were far from typical - although Sam was closest to the average), were very limited in their views:<br /><br />https://notionclubpapers.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-strange-opening-scene-of-lord-of.htmlBruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-68937726403261334722021-01-02T22:26:39.238+00:002021-01-02T22:26:39.238+00:00As Milton's Adam observes of God's provide...As Milton's Adam observes of God's providence:<br /><br /><br />by small<br />Accomplishing great things, by things deemed weak<br />Subverting worldly strong, and worldly wise<br />By simply meekKarlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06030980000235824571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-16696709986696230502021-01-02T19:19:28.781+00:002021-01-02T19:19:28.781+00:00I have never considered this before. I believe Bil...I have never considered this before. I believe Billy is on to something here. Francis Bergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11063224017320651978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-67571846350071697712021-01-02T18:58:07.234+00:002021-01-02T18:58:07.234+00:00I like it. This post not only illuminates, but exe...I like it. This post not only illuminates, but exemplifies. I've read a fair amount of commentary on LOTR, and I'm not sure I haven't heard a message something like this before, but I can say, I've never had it said so simply yet powerfully. <br /><br />"Anit-Power specialists" - perfect!Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11740849677745347222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-62580878857029189762021-01-02T17:15:28.449+00:002021-01-02T17:15:28.449+00:00@Wes - I would say that Tolkien is pretty clear ab...@Wes - I would say that Tolkien is pretty clear about Saruman's motivations: they are purely spiteful and pettily vengeful, to demonstrate how low he has fallen from greatness. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-48234855131956286972021-01-02T15:53:57.153+00:002021-01-02T15:53:57.153+00:00They could be mistaken for children...They could be mistaken for children...Doktor Jeephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06264029556476623973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-23631291594609063042021-01-02T15:27:18.653+00:002021-01-02T15:27:18.653+00:00What to make of the scouring of the Shire, in ligh...What to make of the scouring of the Shire, in light of this theory? Was Saruman an equal-opportunity corruptor/conqueror of all peoples, or did he have a growing thought that they merited special treatment? If the former, then the demoralization was merely a type of predatory relish in exploiting a "weak" race. If the latter, then perhaps a dim realization that they had *some* mysterious purpose, since he kept running into these halflings during his geopolitical maneuverings.Wes Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-87215956777711931142021-01-02T15:16:42.487+00:002021-01-02T15:16:42.487+00:00@Ben - Thanks... it does the same for me!@Ben - Thanks... it does the same for me!Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-33285002292831062122021-01-02T15:01:20.667+00:002021-01-02T15:01:20.667+00:00Love it! Elucidates a kind of nebulous feeling I h...Love it! Elucidates a kind of nebulous feeling I had about Hobbits.BenLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-72412820806319922342021-01-02T13:58:43.905+00:002021-01-02T13:58:43.905+00:00@R - Thanks: typo corrected. @R - Thanks: typo corrected. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-87203880224478743962021-01-02T13:36:43.436+00:002021-01-02T13:36:43.436+00:00I believe you meant to say that Ents were created ...I believe you meant to say that Ents were created by Yavanna, not Elves.<br /><br />As to the main thesis, it's something to think about; I always just assumed that Hobbits were a "branch" of Men, so to speak.Rangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12201994446688581703noreply@blogger.com