tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post8693626131143094218..comments2024-03-28T21:32:26.550+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: Christopher Langan solves the Cretan Liar 'Paradox'Bruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-28137308498366940502022-01-03T08:35:24.492+00:002022-01-03T08:35:24.492+00:00@p - I think I know what you mean - but I think th...@p - I think I know what you mean - but I think that increasingly such instances are also part of the manipulation - e.g. controlled opposition, or officially approved forms of limited-dissent. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-2602499848337481222022-01-03T08:34:06.231+00:002022-01-03T08:34:06.231+00:00@Sean - I think we need to distinguish between eng...@Sean - I think we need to distinguish between engaging with individual people who are in servitude to The System - which we must, and should, sometimes do; Not engaging with The System - including individuals when they are operating within The System. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-67899119842720742502022-01-03T01:00:11.179+00:002022-01-03T01:00:11.179+00:00I think the partial exception would be what we cal...I think the partial exception would be what we call in law "statements against interest"...They are to be given conditional credibility, but are still subject to verification...and are likely to be only partially true, often understating the negative information...pyrrhushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06150605108788285274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-50211276173044490482022-01-03T00:23:15.200+00:002022-01-03T00:23:15.200+00:00Wouldn’t one reason to engage in discourse with th...Wouldn’t one reason to engage in discourse with the system and it’s human products of the system be to get more information from it/them, to interrogate it if you will. In order to find out if it’s telling the truth or not and if it should transpire that it or they are lying, then show them the error of its ways? Dont enemies need to be confronted, at least some of the time. Don’t liars need to hear the truth, or at least be made aware that they are lying? Basically don’t we just need to ask the Cretan a few well formulated questions to figure out what he’s up to?Sean Fowlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-29978651264926120082022-01-02T20:56:19.207+00:002022-01-02T20:56:19.207+00:00@Frank "The act of merely rejecting the Syste...@Frank "The act of merely rejecting the System as evil (though necessary and good) is negative in motivation. On the other hand, understanding that thinking and being outside the System (however temporary or limited) offers the opportunity to become an instrument for divine providence, which provides the positive motivation."<br /><br />That puts what I was driving-at very neatly. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-48578625399615997722022-01-02T18:09:48.646+00:002022-01-02T18:09:48.646+00:00"I believe that every person who - for a whil..."I believe that every person who - for a while - succeeds in thinking/ being outside of The System becomes (for that time) an instrument of divine providence."<br /><br />Bruce, that's brilliant! That perfectly encapsulates a positive freedom-for motivation for the spiritual imperative behind system-distancing. The act of merely rejecting the System as evil (though necessary and good) is negative in motivation. On the other hand, understanding that thinking and being outside the System (however temporary or limited) offers the opportunity to become an instrument for divine providence, which provides the positive motivation. And what a motivation!<br /><br />This offers a positive and encouraging answer to the (seemingly) difficult question of why the System should be rejected in the first place as well as why solutions that rely primarily or entirely on the System will not work in this time and place. Francis Bergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11063224017320651978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-44606938913244813992022-01-02T17:47:10.197+00:002022-01-02T17:47:10.197+00:00Excellent stuff Dr Charlton. And this is how I hav...Excellent stuff Dr Charlton. And this is how I have treated news out of China for years. But I am not 100% consistent re: Western Govs. <br /><br />I'll also add that the System adherents use this approach on us. They act as though what dissidents say have zero information. They outright say that when a dissident is "correct", that it was mere coincidence. And that the adherents believe they were more "correct" in being wrong than dissidents were in being right. <br /><br />They treat us as though we are categorically incapable of being correct about anything. <br /><br />Almost complete bias towards authority (System/Institutions).Skarphedinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-51471022315826960702022-01-02T17:41:38.426+00:002022-01-02T17:41:38.426+00:00Well just to niggle a little bit about Paul and th...Well just to niggle a little bit about Paul and the letter to Titus, a man can be a notorious liar, even when he’s telling the truth his character can be that of a liar. Even a thief doesn’t necessarily just steal all the time.Michael Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02424741388413201535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-63984968216754502262022-01-02T17:37:27.979+00:002022-01-02T17:37:27.979+00:00PS - I regard Chris Langan as a a Man on the right...PS - I regard Chris Langan as a a Man on the right side in the spiritual war, but rather more reliant upon empirical/ factual arguments than myself! - or than I aspire to be; and with a residual and inappropriate loyalty to System aspects such as a 'Jeffersonian' ideal or vision of the USA that need to be set aside. <br /><br />Our patriotism (for instance) now demands to be non-empirical, intuitive and imaginative, and independent of 'historical evidence'. I strive for this in my conviction about The Normans as agents of evil, for instance! Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-18801061656337475672022-01-02T17:32:34.729+00:002022-01-02T17:32:34.729+00:00@Todd - Yes, that's exactly what I was trying ...@Todd - Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to get-at: exhorting myself. But more generally than just the birdemic. <br /><br />Using good bits of The System to attack evil-motivated bits of The System was OK before The System as a whole became evil - but nowadays the effect is just to increase chaotic evil.<br /><br />I believe that every person who - for a while - succeeds in thinking/ being outside of The System becomes (for that time) an instrument of divine providence. <br /><br />@Wm - I *always* feel about syllogistic reasoning that the boundary of what is said assumes much more than is apparent - and indeed, that there *is* a boundary around a syllogism is usually an assumption that I regard as false. Therefore I never find it convincing - from Plato's later Socrates depictions onwards to recent analytic philosophy, it seems to be a mistaken way of reasoning. <br /><br />When I have been seriously affected by a bit of logical reasoning - such as the 'unmoved mover' proof of God from Aquinas - I have always taken it is a 'softer and more flexible' way (quoting Thomas Browne, and agreeing with him) than the author intends. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-80504809967605986412022-01-02T16:56:04.577+00:002022-01-02T16:56:04.577+00:00This little essay was beyond timely, thanks!
I'...This little essay was beyond timely, thanks!<br />I'd been discussing with some friends about how one should treat System Info that seemingly supports 'our side,' i.e. info that seems to say that the peck is dangerous or at least not effective.<br />I'd been thinking that one should not trust system info just because it supports your current view or side.<br />This nails it.<br />I notice that the system promotes seeming dissidents who promote peck-hesitancy. I've even seen info (that also can't be trusted ironically) that shows that orgs and companies have funded anti-peck propaganda. <br />But now I need not try to figure out the tangled web.Toddnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-74606996018464216782022-01-02T16:45:19.553+00:002022-01-02T16:45:19.553+00:00Very good point regarding System statements.
Rega...Very good point regarding System statements.<br /><br />Regarding the Cretan liar paradox itself, it's not a proper logical paradox because there is a simple solution: Epimenides's statement is false, and therefore <i>some</i> Cretans <i>sometimes</i> lie.<br /><br />It is something of a paradox for biblical inerrantists, though, since Paul quotes Epimenides and then calls his statement "true" (Titus 1:12-13).Wm Jas Tychonievichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07446790072877463982noreply@blogger.com