tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post8767811474756989040..comments2024-03-29T15:13:42.610+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: Science - from maximum to minimum honestyBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-69736017029786764322011-09-18T00:50:49.975+01:002011-09-18T00:50:49.975+01:00- but maybe, once you begin using dishonesty exped...- but maybe, once you begin using dishonesty expediently, there is no reason to stop at any particular point, no reason to keep the dishonesty minimal; and many reasons incrementally to ramp-up the proportion of expedient dishonesty until...<br /><br />Your post applies to to so much more than scientific rigor and is spot on. There is a quite interesting book worth a read on the topic of confirmation bias and how we justify our behaviors, -- 'Mistakes Were Made (but not by me), by Tavris and Aronson. An excellent read that spells goes far beyond confirmation bias, and talks about how people make slow, incremental steps to get to a behavior that allows them to side step responsibility for their actions.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05352151855145958818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-63998929372872280832011-09-15T00:45:43.423+01:002011-09-15T00:45:43.423+01:00'Quine is a formal philosopher.
Need I say mo...<b>'Quine is a formal philosopher.<br /><br />Need I say more?'</b><br /><br />Yes. You need to say a lot more, unless you think that identifying someone as a philosopher invalidates everything that person has written.<br /><br />You could start with an explanation of whether Quine's notion of "underdetermination" is better or worse than Duhem's "confirmation holism." (I would argue that Quine is better.)<br /><br />Then you could go on to explain whether you think Quine's work supports or detracts from The Crow's notion that no one has a clue. <br /><br />For an encore, you could show how Quine puts the original post in context.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-5985452363290308822011-09-14T22:18:59.624+01:002011-09-14T22:18:59.624+01:00Bruce Charlton gives it to us straight, insight st...Bruce Charlton gives it to us straight, insight stacked on insight.<br /><br />Quine is a formal philosopher.<br /><br />Need I say more?The Continental Op, Ph.D.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-36416382245937022822011-09-14T17:07:30.056+01:002011-09-14T17:07:30.056+01:00That for all the bluster, apparent confidence, qua...<b>That for all the bluster, apparent confidence, qualifications, and standing, almost nobody actually has a clue? </b><br /><br />I used to feel that way until I read Quine's "Two Dogmas of Empiricism" and found out why logical positivism failed.<br /><br />It's worth the time to read that paper, at very least.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-83803260886014776652011-09-13T20:31:45.902+01:002011-09-13T20:31:45.902+01:00Has it ever occurred to you, Bruce, that almost no...Has it ever occurred to you, Bruce, that almost nobody knows anything about anything? <br />That for all the bluster, apparent confidence, qualifications, and standing, almost nobody actually has a clue? <br />I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but I often get the sneaking feeling that this must actually be the case.The Crowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04323413604073160469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-43840305044004869822011-09-13T18:05:48.507+01:002011-09-13T18:05:48.507+01:00@Crow - yes, in mainstream society, honest people ...@Crow - yes, in mainstream society, honest people are regarded with great suspicion, as 'loose cannons' - who knows *what* they might say? Of course, they are not regarded as being honest, but as either crazy persons who should be locked up or at least secluded, or as evil trouble-makers pursuing some kind of attention-seeking agenda.<br /><br />So far as I can see, the only famous scientists who are honest (which does not mean they are correct, but that they tell it as they see it) are regarded as 'mavericks' and either depicted as mad (e.g. Rupert Sheldrake) or evil (e.g. Peter Duesberg, James Watson). Or at most they are quoted very selectively (e.g. James Lovelock - who is honoured as the father of 'global warming' but the that he says warming is due to methane not CO2, and that we are doomed and human action cannot prevent mass destruction are ignored). <br /><br />My point is not that these people are necessarily right, or completely right, but that they are basically much more honest than the usual, and they are sidelined.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-16481459849837545782011-09-13T17:50:24.838+01:002011-09-13T17:50:24.838+01:00It is a lonely, lonely place to be, when you decid...It is a lonely, lonely place to be, when you decide to become completely honest. <br />Robinson Crusoe, in the midst of Babylon.The Crowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04323413604073160469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-46144549696690235062011-09-13T17:09:31.605+01:002011-09-13T17:09:31.605+01:00For sure - it is the exceptional and rare scientis...For sure - it is the exceptional and rare scientist that is as honest as they can be all the time - including research grant applications, research plans etc (full honesty used to be the norm, at least in Britain, just a few decades ago). Most scientists will say what it takes to get a job, make career progress, get promotion etc.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-4757622577482609162011-09-13T15:28:36.455+01:002011-09-13T15:28:36.455+01:00Outside of a few politically charged fields, would...Outside of a few politically charged fields, would you say this is really true for the *average* scientist?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com