tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post2421570026941008680..comments2024-03-28T21:32:26.550+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: What to do about church? (You, yourself, alone.)Bruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-46608597861516229472021-04-19T22:57:09.213+01:002021-04-19T22:57:09.213+01:00This has somehow got me thinking about possible (c...This has somehow got me thinking about possible (conscious?) interrelations between Charles Williams's All Hallows' Eve (AHE), Lewis's That Hideous Strength (THS), and various things Tolkien was working on around the same sort of time (the exact details of who was writing what just when, I have not yet rechecked). For instance, that AHE is significantly about Baptism and the effect of becoming a member of the Body of Christ even as an unconscious baby.<br /><br />Is that true of THS in some ways, as well? - e.g., Ransom the extra-terrestrially kidnapped Christian, thereafter on earth, even when humanly alone, being sometimes very personally "with angels and archangels and all the company of heaven" (as Lewis later quotes in Letters to Malcolm, Letter 3), McPhee being excluded from going in search of Merlin as not a believing Christian (do we know if he was Baptized as a baby?), Ransom and Dr. Dimble being humanly mistaken about the living effects of Merlin having been a Baptized Christian - mistaken together with the Belbury folk (and perhaps even the demons?), with all, to varying degrees, seemingly expecting him to side with the forces of evil.<br /><br />And, in how far is Tolkien in working out the NĂºmenorean 'cultus' (discreetly reflected throughout The Lord of the Rings) imagining a pre-Incarnational Faith without Sacraments (or even typological sacrifices/offerings like those of Abel, Noah, Abraham, and Melchizedek) yet uniting faithful worshippers of Eru (latria) and of the unfallen Valar and Maiar (dulia), even when as alone as a Ranger like Aragorn?<br /><br />Did these Inklings discuss things like this, when sharing samples of their latest work?<br /><br />How may they have been meant to encourage, when drafted mid-World War?<br /><br />David Llewellyn DoddsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-29975662638866531832021-04-15T03:19:58.308+01:002021-04-15T03:19:58.308+01:00Archbishop Schneider's book "Christus Vin...Archbishop Schneider's book "Christus Vincit" contains a large auto-biography portion about growing up a German Catholic under communist Russia and how they were on their own most of the time - rarely receiving Eucharist - but remaining devout as a family. It is very interesting and may be helpful.<br /><br />We may be in worse times now in that we have both a crackdown and a nominally "fake church" with wayward Priests and ministers who put the state-religion first - while the Priests he met were risking their lives under communism (many of our Priests & Bishops won't take a tiny fractional chance of asymptomatic illness now... and preach Birdemic nonsense)<br /><br />Dr. Charlton is right though, even Catholics must discern now. Who do you listen to? Is the Pope even Catholic? It's not a joke anymore.Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07815695560953002699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-8618991701784715112021-04-15T01:55:11.632+01:002021-04-15T01:55:11.632+01:00Dante tells the story of Ripheus, a Trojan warrior...Dante tells the story of Ripheus, a Trojan warrior who, because of his (originally Pagan) piety, was granted a private revelation of the Christian gospel many centuries before Christ. He lived and died a true Christian, utterly alone in this faith, and he was saved.<br /><br />Or, more to the point, here is what Paul of Tarsus told the Athenians on Mars' Hill (Acts 17:22-28):<br /><br />"Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. . . . God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; . . . and hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, 'For we are also his offspring.'"<br /><br />Under the birdemic regime, the "bounds of your habitation" may not extend much beyond the walls of your own home, but you can still feel after him and find him.Wm Jas Tychonievichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07446790072877463982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-29987484522492402462021-04-14T22:26:48.559+01:002021-04-14T22:26:48.559+01:00"Thus even if the birdemic really was as bad ..."Thus even if the birdemic really was as bad as the Black Death - the Black Death did not stop the church functioning, because the Medieval church (and society generally) knew that salvation was more important than mortal life."<br /><br />This is a fantastic point, and it's utterly lost on birdemic people. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this. There's a mass of literature on the period as well, including parish records and first hand accounts. Good introductory books are "The Scourging Angel: The Black Death in the British Isles", and of course, "A diary of the Plague Year"... <br /><br />I realise I'm not adding much here, but the contrast in culture between the Medieval mind and ours is truly staggering...Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-45095936384963707602021-04-14T20:55:05.104+01:002021-04-14T20:55:05.104+01:00The fourth-century convert Marius Victorinus was c...The fourth-century convert Marius Victorinus was challenged by the bishop of Milan that, if he was really a Christian, he should be seen in church.<br /><br />Victorinus' answer: 'do walls then make a Christian?'Monomachosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-21726605216700649212021-04-14T18:44:59.359+01:002021-04-14T18:44:59.359+01:00Dr Bruce touches the elephant, and describes an el...Dr Bruce touches the elephant, and describes an elephant.<br /><br />So many churches aren't answering to Christ but are really just System franchises.The Continental Opnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-49119557840525583802021-04-14T17:57:28.740+01:002021-04-14T17:57:28.740+01:00@Alex - "As long as there is one true Catholi...@Alex - "As long as there is one true Catholic left alive, then the Church is still alive." Surely that is untrue in the long term, unless that one person is a bishop (who can ordain priests)? What could a single non-priest do? - the church would die with him.<br /><br />But I don't think you have addressed my points about what individual people in the situation I describe should actually do, now. Or are you saying that they can only wait, should wait patiently; and the situation will become clear? <br /><br />Either way; I suppose the real problem is that the churches have forcefully agreed with the world government that 'health' is primary. (The fact that the definition of health is a fraud and a lie is secondary to the fact that the health of mortal Men has been officially regarded (by the churches) as so far transcending the spiritual that the spiritual has no status. <br /><br />Thus even if the birdemic really was as bad as the Black Death - the Black Death did not stop the church functioning, because the Medieval church (and society generally) knew that salvation was more important than mortal life. I don't think we really know anything much about what was really happening in the Arian times, or indeed what Arianism really was. But accepting your 80% heresy estimate by my understanding, the RCC is now in a far worse situation than then, because both sides, including the Arians, were very serious about their faith - and putting it first. <br /><br />More deeply I think you are arguing that the RC church cannot (in some mystical sense) genuinely be corrupted, or do more harm than good. <br /><br />But this does not suffice. In practice, this does not solve the problem of the real RC Christian; who is confronted by serious doubt about the location and personnel of the real RCC; and therefore where authority and priestly power lies. <br /><br />In practice, every modern Roman Catholic just-is using his discernment all the time, in deciding innumerable questions concerning 'who to believe' - and this is getting worse and worse, for decades - leading up to the present stark apostasy. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-84757991335062141802021-04-14T17:23:53.435+01:002021-04-14T17:23:53.435+01:00I wrestled with this at the beginning of the birde...I wrestled with this at the beginning of the birdemic but ultimately my church (Orthodox) left me and my family on my own. I couldn't confess, have my son baptized or take communion. So unless you consider a livestream to be anything less than a demonic takeover, there really was no choice. I spent Pascha reading John and Proverbs because I couldn't stomach loading up youtube on the holiest night of the year. And I will not commune with the church that keeps reminding people on it's website to NOT come in to church.Sean G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03107563428752354740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-17532828300857717762021-04-14T17:22:53.654+01:002021-04-14T17:22:53.654+01:00Church can still be helpful, but it feels very awk...Church can still be helpful, but it feels very awkward because no longer are we rooted beings living in a community (I think Tolkien was hinting at something like this in his essay on Smith of Wootton Major regarding the church).Jonathannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-33584794975576142112021-04-14T16:27:03.135+01:002021-04-14T16:27:03.135+01:00As long as there is one true Catholic left alive, ...As long as there is one true Catholic left alive, then the Church is still alive.<br /><br />I'm told at one point 90% of the Church were Arian heretics.<br /><br />I hate to sound confrontational but I just don't see the wisdom in abandoning Christ's church just because one disagrees with its leadership on various matter - the right course of action is to keep joining in the sacraments as best as one can while praying for the priests.<br /><br />Even IF the priests should happen to be committing sins, that's still no reason to abandon the church - the sacraments operate on the "Ex opere operato" principle, which means they are valid no matter what.<br /><br />'Ex opere operato is a Latin phrase meaning "from the work performed" and, in reference to sacraments, signifies that they derive their efficacy, not from the minister or recipient (which would mean that they derive it ex opere operantis, meaning "from the agent's activity"), but from the sacrament considered independently of the merits of the minister or the recipient. According to the ex opere operato interpretation of the sacraments, any positive effect comes not from their worthiness or faith but from the sacrament as an instrument of God.'<br /><br />And even if one cannot physically engage in the Eucharist, one can still watch the Mass on Youtube and do the spiritual communion instead.<br /><br />https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/devotions/act-of-spiritual-communion-339<br /><br />I apologize again if I come off as confrontational, I just wanted to share my opinion on this.Alexnoreply@blogger.com