tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post3674303147212115476..comments2024-03-28T21:32:26.550+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: Immodest dressBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-85553095735671258992013-09-11T01:21:33.655+01:002013-09-11T01:21:33.655+01:00Clothing is a language.It says something about the...Clothing is a language.It says something about the wearer. Feminism is largely responsible for the near-nakedness of many women. It has a uniform and the uniform of feminism is immodest, provocative and unladylike. Of course,feminism does not recognise the concept of ladylike dress or behaviour. Some women in public are so shamefully attired that they deserve to be arrested. I also believe that immodest dress can threaten marriages because such dress can turn a man's thoughts to lust, and, unrestrained passions can lead to adultery and pre-marital sexual relations.Mrs.Whitehttp://thetruthshallsetyoufreeblog.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-46474863411751825032013-08-16T10:13:52.047+01:002013-08-16T10:13:52.047+01:00@AT - Leviticus 19:28
King James Version (KJV)
2...@AT - Leviticus 19:28<br /><br />King James Version (KJV)<br /><br />28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.<br /><br />*<br /><br />Fair enough. But presumably many Christians do not feel themselves bound by Leviticus, on a line by line basis - or interpret it in some different way.<br /><br />This is actually not really a specifically Christian matter - indeed it is the non-Christians who most obviously resist the current trend. It is indeed a typical bit of 'why not' reasoning <br /><br />http://charltonteaching.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/why-not-argument-for-going-with-flow.htmlBruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-34567050246253845272013-08-16T09:48:42.757+01:002013-08-16T09:48:42.757+01:00Bruce, your response to C is disturbing. Leviticu...Bruce, your response to C is disturbing. Leviticus 19:28 is the text that informs us on this matter. Where God has spoken, His people should be silent. Servant-hood and discipleship imply a desire to be obedient to the master. This was long recognized within the church.<br /><br />I don't see the question C asked as an attempt to force you to justify why you perceive an unrepentant attitude, rather more likely it is simple ignorance of what Scripture actually says. God's Word is no longer taught in the church. God's people no longer study His Word.Artisanal Toadhttp://artisanaltoadshall.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-36658695231298393462013-08-13T20:37:15.994+01:002013-08-13T20:37:15.994+01:00I see the men do not dress as immodestly, leaving ...I see the men do not dress as immodestly, leaving me to ask, if the excuse of warm weather is the reason to dress immodestly, then why dont the men bare everything too?Lydiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15530969871397361970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-80279825255537813852013-08-06T06:59:15.903+01:002013-08-06T06:59:15.903+01:00@C - It is interesting that you are making this &#...@C - It is interesting that you are making this 'all about me' - so that *I* must justify something which, until not many years ago, all decent people knew without having specifically to be told.<br /><br />You are, indeed, using the 'why not?' argument - to which there is no answer, since its premises make it unanswerable. Any sin could be taken this way - after all it could be argued that a thief, a rapist, murderer is not *necessarily* evil, there are exceptions... and so on. But do exceptions imply that theft, rape and murder are thereby not evil? Of course not!<br /><br />This is the secular modern way of reasoning which is killing our very souls. <br /><br />This is, indeed, simply a natural law matter; but it has now become apparent that natural law is powerless in the absence of religion.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-33578853134017153512013-08-06T05:51:40.653+01:002013-08-06T05:51:40.653+01:00How did you make the jump from "man has Chris...How did you make the jump from "man has Christian tattoos" to "man is unrepentant sinner"? Christian tattoos are ubiquitous in some parts of the world. That doesn't give most people in England an excuse because obviously the culture is different, but I don't understand this attitude that tattoos are somehow *inherently* ugly/evil.<br /><br />Several people in my church approached our bishop about getting Orthodox cross tattoos; he gave his ok, and they got them. I always saw it as a conveniently identifying mark or a mark of commitment. I'm confused that there are other Christians who think that this potentially makes them 'unrepentant sinners'. <br /><br />(this is coming from someone who doesn't generally care for tattoos.)C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-63938045411517555592013-08-05T12:45:18.174+01:002013-08-05T12:45:18.174+01:00"What does a society of such persons deserve?..."What does a society of such persons deserve?"<br /><br />They deserve the treatment that Sodom and Gomorrah received. And what are they asking, pleading for, by such behavior? Some sign that a Higher Power cares enough to publicly rebuke them. Unfortunately, they've got the idea that God can be provoked when he doesn't agree to be.Maximo Macaroninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-13358147763152140912013-08-05T10:23:14.031+01:002013-08-05T10:23:14.031+01:00Thank you, Bruce, to post my comment. I knew it wo...Thank you, Bruce, to post my comment. I knew it would be difficult to render but I see you made your best effort.Imnobodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-35173294318793896032013-08-05T08:26:30.131+01:002013-08-05T08:26:30.131+01:00@Alban - "What are we as Christians to do bes...@Alban - "What are we as Christians to do besides pointing out the failures of the present times?"<br /><br />First of all, 'Christians' (self-identified) are not doing this, neither are they standing apart from this behaviour - so these are the first things to do. <br /><br />What else? *Evangelism* is the only strategy - i.e. try to make more (and better) Christians. <br /><br />It was secularism got us here, and secularism cannot get us out.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-80883659477722062972013-08-05T05:18:12.992+01:002013-08-05T05:18:12.992+01:00@Alban - There are class differentials, but smalle...@Alban - There are class differentials, but smaller than they were, and the whole curve has shifted and continues to shift upwards. The upper classes (defined by education or occupation) are lagging the lower, by a significant - but narrowing - gap. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-62095661308951896212013-08-05T01:08:51.660+01:002013-08-05T01:08:51.660+01:00Would you say this immodesty is endemic to the low...Would you say this immodesty is endemic to the lower strata (or mainly to )? <br /><br />What are we as Christians to do besides pointing out the failures of the present times?Albannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-78001509001875644412013-08-04T19:05:11.968+01:002013-08-04T19:05:11.968+01:00Imnobody has left a new comment on your post "...Imnobody has left a new comment on your post "Immodest dress": <br /><br />"The combination of extreme ubiquitous immodesty with extreme tattooing and chemically-chiseled bodies, demonstrate that we are in new cultural territory"<br /><br />Yes, in the territory of the Decline of Western Civilization. <br />...[although against it] some days I can't wait for [a non-Christian monotheism] to destroy this so-called "culture" we have today. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-58378440200223806472013-08-04T17:26:52.207+01:002013-08-04T17:26:52.207+01:00@AG - A non-Western example would be 'Pussy Ri...@AG - A non-Western example would be 'Pussy Riot' in Russia - and the same happened in the sixties in the West (Love Ins etc) - but they never went mainstream and became normal in the way that grossly immodest dress and wholesale self-mutilation are now mainstream and normal. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-59053354495810339802013-08-04T17:24:16.278+01:002013-08-04T17:24:16.278+01:00Adam G. has left a new comment on your post "...Adam G. has left a new comment on your post "Immodest dress": <br /><br />**Having seen the rapidity and extremity of self-degradation of the past decades, it would be a brave man who assumed that we have reached rock bottom: presumably the next step is that immodest behaviour in the public arena will move-on from where immodest dress leaves-off... **<br /><br />[... "pride"] parades are occasions for public displays of sexual behavior because it is considered a salubrious rebuke to the prejudices of the retrograde. <br /><br />The first steps in making public displays of sexual behavior common and accepted are public displays that have a 'righteous' political bent, and they are already happening. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-23814450263992649542013-08-04T17:19:23.176+01:002013-08-04T17:19:23.176+01:00"I do not believe the Christian community sta..."I do not believe the Christian community stands as much of a beacon."<br /><br />Not as a whole, but modesty is becoming a sign by which those who *do* potentially stand as a beacon may be recognized. <br /><br />(Or, more exactly, the immodest self-identified Christians are marking themselves out as part of the problem - not the solution.)Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-31480002956259388502013-08-04T15:51:02.163+01:002013-08-04T15:51:02.163+01:00Well articulated. Thank you. Unfortunately I do ...Well articulated. Thank you. Unfortunately I do not believe the Christian community stands as much of a beacon. I sit here on a summer Sunday before church services and am reminded by your article that due to the dress of "christian" young women I will need to keep my eyes up and on the pastor or screen above him during service. Even the worship team is suspect at times. I attend a very conservative church here in Seattle and the number tatoos that will be on display in the rows in front of me lead me to believe that the Christians are just one step behind their hell-bound comtemporaries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-61398833451863212802013-08-04T15:24:44.000+01:002013-08-04T15:24:44.000+01:00@WmJas - "The goal is specifically sexual att...@WmJas - "The goal is specifically sexual attractiveness without beauty -- attraction stripped of its aesthetic, spiritual, human aspects and reduced to raw animal lust."<br /><br />Yes! That's it exactly. <br /><br />@JP - "I have no reason to believe he is not a devout Christian"<br /><br />But it sounds very much as if he is an unrepentant sinner - a proud, self-advertising sinner; so it is not clear how much good all the conspicuous consumption of Christianity will do him...<br /><br />@Luq - Every day of the week in Newcastle - workdays and weekends, morning, noon and night - but also exactly the same everywhere else to the north, south and west too - even in rural areas. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-71650689189824870392013-08-04T14:42:39.473+01:002013-08-04T14:42:39.473+01:00Sounds like a weekend in Newcastle. Add the consum...Sounds like a weekend in Newcastle. Add the consumption of extreme amounts of alcohol for the full effect. It will only get worse, this is well past the point of any recovery. The only solution is disaster and there is a long way down to go yet before that. Not quite Sodom but getting there.<br /><br />The worst of it for me personally is people who dont engage in such behaviour (and never would), but when this behaviour is brought up with them in conversation say `nothing wrong with that`.Luqmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-19782913095921060822013-08-04T13:19:21.007+01:002013-08-04T13:19:21.007+01:00I am in the American South at the moment. All the ...I am in the American South at the moment. All the phenomena you describe are on display here, in the buckle of the Bible Belt. And indeed, they are all regular Church-goers in this area. One wonders if great expanses of flabby flesh covered in tattoos may also be seen in Church on Sunday. Probably!<br /><br />I was particularly intrigued yesterday by a man whose place of business was decorated with all manner of Christian "stuff" - not just crosses but framed Bible verses and flyers for his Church and its youth group. He himself was covered in what I can only describe as "prison tattoos" that covered his arms and lower legs in dark ink. But all the tattoos were in a Christian theme... so not to worry (?). <br /><br />I have no reason to believe he is not a devout Christian. He just looks like a primitive pagan weirdo...JPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-88191822924547795092013-08-04T12:30:41.279+01:002013-08-04T12:30:41.279+01:00Reminds me of Alma 3 in the Book of Mormon. Enemie...Reminds me of <a href="http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/3?lang=eng" rel="nofollow">Alma 3</a> in the Book of Mormon. Enemies of the good voluntarily mark themselves as such.<br /><br />The combination of sexually aggressive dress with deliberate uglification (tattoos, hair dye, facial piercings, etc.) is telling. The goal is specifically sexual attractiveness <i>without beauty</i> -- attraction stripped of its aesthetic, spiritual, <i>human</i> aspects and reduced to raw animal lust.Wm Jashttp://wmjas.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-4489342065745928492013-08-04T11:09:15.692+01:002013-08-04T11:09:15.692+01:00@d - I think you are straying into the realms of s...@d - I think you are straying into the realms of style rather than modesty, and (given the way I dress) that is a place I don't want to go. wrt trainers, due to my arthritic knees I wear the most sole-padded and unbelievably comfortable shoes I can find, which also happen to look utterly ridiculous (search Google images for: Hoka Bondi B)Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-11015917185116067732013-08-04T10:39:45.209+01:002013-08-04T10:39:45.209+01:00Having well-turned calves I have always been happy...Having well-turned calves I have always been happy to show them off in kilt or shorts. Mind you, shorts In My Day were khaki Eighth Army jobs - but you can still buy the like if you try. Proper shorts also go well with knee socks and shoes (as Ozzie postmen demonstrate so well). As we all age, more and more often the shoes will be trainers, which often suit the ancient foot better - they are what my GP recommends. It's mildly surprising that nobody seems to produce unflashy trainers suited to the comfort of widening feet and the sense of style of geezers. I dare say that they should fasten with velcro rather than laces.<br /><br />All this, though, takes us some distance from your point.deariemenoreply@blogger.com