tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post4119500216821904317..comments2024-03-28T21:32:26.550+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: "It is as if the earth there is cursed" - Tolkien, Ireland and the Roman ChurchBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-61556711720803188062020-05-08T16:00:38.185+01:002020-05-08T16:00:38.185+01:00@HRS - Per Dr. Charlton's other analysis - the...@HRS - Per Dr. Charlton's other analysis - the organization can't enforce goodness. You can't use an organization and its rules to systemize enlightenment or ensure Heaven.<br /><br />Bishop Schneider points out that all the Priests who corrupted the Church through and after the Vatican II conference had made an "oath against Modernism" that had been institutionalized prior, yet didn't care or ignored it. The prayer to St. Michael to protect against this prophesied time of evil was also institutionalized. Both were tossed out the window by those same Priests... it's all about interior motivation.<br /><br />I'm still a Roman Catholic and think the sacraments are valid and efficacious, but *obviously* an evil man, with evil motivations, will remain evil if it is his will to do so - despite confession and receiving Holy Eucharist (e.g. various Priestly sexual abuses and sins, modernists, corruptors, who were good at keeping up appearances and following the letter-of-the-law).Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-632524458438833222020-05-07T23:05:35.563+01:002020-05-07T23:05:35.563+01:00@hrs. Because of the evolutionary development of h...@hrs. Because of the evolutionary development of human consciousness. Although this moves incrementally through the generations, so there is still an important role for traditional churches.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-72875291776779088582020-05-07T19:49:19.570+01:002020-05-07T19:49:19.570+01:00Bruce: Why do you believe that it was not possible...Bruce: Why do you believe that it was not possible to retain the pre-Vatican II RC Church?<br />I think that after some initial shrinking as the Cultural Revolution hit - as it did full-force immediately after Vatican II closed - a fully orthodox Catholic Church, not enfeebled and with liturgy diluted as after V2, might have been a powerful counterweight and locus for Counter-Revolution, as she had mounted the Counter-Reformation. And might be much stronger, spiritually and even politically, than the Church is today.<br />When I converted from Anglicanism to Catholicism, it was that Christian orthodoxy I was seeking. I've found it, in fits and snatches and generally ill-defended, in the mainstream post-V2 Novus Ordo Catholic Church - although it is waning and Pope Francis's pontificate is evidence that, for now, orthodoxy is not in the saddle of the Novus Ordo Church.<br />But I have found true, unabashed Christian orthodoxy in parishes that celebrate the Traditional Mass, often in the teeth of opposition from the Novus Ordo hierarchy. If the Church had not sold its birthright for a mess of supposed-relevance, I think she would be much stronger today - and would not flaccidly have surrendered the sacraments to an outbreak of WuFlu or anything else.Howard Ramsey Sutherlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07629291516927002384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-82315197649140017062020-05-07T17:32:36.188+01:002020-05-07T17:32:36.188+01:00@A. I believe that it wad not possible to retain t...@A. I believe that it wad not possible to retain the pre VatII church. However that surely made thing worse not better, and the dishonest institutional failure to acknowledge the mistake has compounded the damage manyfold.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-86941229341179333852020-05-07T17:17:05.673+01:002020-05-07T17:17:05.673+01:00I'm reading Bishop Schneider's "Chris...I'm reading Bishop Schneider's "Christus Vincit" and his diagnosis of the Catholic Church's problems match your own. He says since Vatican II the life of the Church has just been full of endless, empty, useless meetings. Bureaucracy has replaced evangelization, missionary work, etc. All truly pastoral work has been replaced by "pastoral" meetings with long vague papers that no one reads...<br /><br />I have trouble grasping the extent of the situation, but it cements my trust in the analysis to have multiple intelligent, honest sources repeat the message.<br /><br />Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-42438939838339020112020-05-07T10:59:09.524+01:002020-05-07T10:59:09.524+01:00I hadn't heard Tolkien's statement about I...I hadn't heard Tolkien's statement about Ireland before. I wonder if it is connected to the belief that St Patrick drove the snakes out of that country.William Wildbloodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231219533755925897noreply@blogger.com