tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post5515715999613770754..comments2024-03-28T14:16:42.371+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: The Left isn't winning by having good arguments - it wins because people are punished for arguing against the LeftBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-58994219561573541472013-09-19T04:16:18.519+01:002013-09-19T04:16:18.519+01:00"Speaking of illusions, we can't afford t..."Speaking of illusions, we can't afford the illusion that the only reason we're not winning is because we're not allowed to get the message out. No, it's much worse than that."<br /><br />It is worse than that.<br /><br />The way it is worse is that those with the power have it by showering handouts upon people whose average IQ is 75-80. These people don't know what a budget is, but they understand when their EBT cards are full and when they are empty.<br /><br />The big cities control the political landscape. This is the problem. <br /><br />There's two solutions-force the left to fully implement their "minority"-favoring policies, even when the minority is us. That will be like pulling teeth, but you might be able to do it if you can shame them from a big enough soapbox. This solution is called populism.It will go over pretty good with the kiddies.<br /><br />The other solution is a coup followed by reactionary politics. Some sort of authoritarian regime to drown out populism forever after the right sorts are in charge.<br /><br />If both strategies are pursued simultaneously it would be significant pressure on the left,forcing them to fight a two-front war and eventually victory by attrition would result. One strategy,however, would necessarily have to be a feint;unbeknownst to its advocates,though, or they wouldn't push with enough vigor or believably enough to get others on board with them.<br /><br />As you say, the situation is worse than the mere fact that people don't know. It's that they don't WANT to know, and that's as bad as it gets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-60661263979238650982013-09-11T12:24:14.993+01:002013-09-11T12:24:14.993+01:00NOTE - It was the experience of writing about IQ a...NOTE - It was the experience of writing about IQ and social class in 2008 that finally and irrevocably persuaded me that strength of reasoning and quantity of evidence had nothing to do with winning arguments in the public arena.<br /><br />http://charltonteaching.blogspot.co.uk/2009/02/social-class-and-iq-some-facts-and.html<br /><br />My argument and evidence, which are merely some assumptions and their necessary mathematical consequences, were subjected to an international multi-media firestorm ALL of which completely/ totally ignored ALL the arguments and evidence (that is, ignored every single element of reason or citation or scientific consensus).<br /><br />The sum total of Leftist discussion on the issues which challenge Leftism is simply SHUT UP!Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-55644197368840965522013-09-10T18:43:56.882+01:002013-09-10T18:43:56.882+01:00@Alex - aside from the obviously corrupt areas of ...@Alex - aside from the obviously corrupt areas of politics, public administration, law and the media - education, science and medicine are also extremely corrupt - for example what are nowadays called 'exams' would have been called 'cheating' fifty years ago. And of course several of the large churches are corrupt - misleading and being dishonest as a matter of routine Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-70096076659839544542013-09-10T18:25:18.143+01:002013-09-10T18:25:18.143+01:00Our society is far more corrupt than people realiz...<i>Our society is far more corrupt than people realize....</i><br /><br />Yes: most emphatically so. An impotent minority is, of course, aware of the parlous state we're in. But those who rock the boat get thrown overboard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-12940508488787865222013-09-06T05:56:16.166+01:002013-09-06T05:56:16.166+01:00@Tucker - That's true enough. But the laws and...@Tucker - That's true enough. But the laws and practices supposed to guarantee 'freedom' have been over-ridden very easily, simply by arguing that 'other things are more important' such as preventing suffering, preventing health hazards, preventing violence or whatever. <br /><br />So if we really wanted to be able (for example) to espouse Christianity (and its principles and implications) in public discourse, then we would need a system of laws and practices that were not neutral but *supportive* of Christianity. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-23022372281059766342013-09-05T23:15:08.514+01:002013-09-05T23:15:08.514+01:00So it is not a matter of being free to disagree, i...<i>So it is not a matter of being free to disagree, it a matter of supporting what is true, and not what is a lie. </i><br /><br />Well, I don't think we are entirely in disagreement here. Surely you must agree that a starting point, anyway, is that we need to be allowed to express the truth!Tuckernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-64800792095860129392013-09-05T17:27:36.637+01:002013-09-05T17:27:36.637+01:00@ADA - Fair enough, at a deep level (as I have arg...@ADA - Fair enough, at a deep level (as I have argued elsewhere) it is all about secularism - and there is the facilitating effect of prosperity as a side effect of a high concentration of genius... and so on.<br /><br />BUT - what I am describing above has become more and more significant since the mid sixties - and now the mass of fair minded, decent, tolerant, well-informed people are terribly wrong about many, many things because of what I describe above. It is a dismaying business.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-25054510300205879602013-09-05T16:50:01.816+01:002013-09-05T16:50:01.816+01:00Sorry, no. While I do not disagree that the left a...Sorry, no. While I do not disagree that the left are totalists and authoritarians, that's not why they win. They win because they present an option of ease, license, immediate gratification, and lack of consequence. <br /><br />Christianity offers the Kingdom of Heaven - ultimate bliss and beauty, but hard to get in to. It has to be earned, and the path to it is narrow and rocky. Leftism offers Cockaigne - a twisted and materialistic perversion of Heaven, with low, earthly pleasures available in abundance. The Sexual Revolution, the welfare state, the drug culture, abortion on demand, the "destagmatizing" of virtually every imaginable deviancy - these are the artifacts of creating, not the Heaven upon the Earth that Marx promised, but Cockaigne upon the Earth.<br /><br />Of course it's a sham, an illusion, a set-piece, and a counterfeit. Of course it is, to borrow a lovely word from the left, unsustainable, and can only lead to ruin and tragedy in the end. Yes, yes... but what has reality to do with anything? <br /><br />Speaking of illusions, we can't afford the illusion that the only reason we're not winning is because we're not allowed to get the message out. No, it's much worse than that. It's that all we have are truth and reality, which are not weapons as powerful as one might wish. Give people the choice between a pleasant illusion on the one hand and warts-and-all reality on the other, and they'll choose the illusion every time. Off to the feelies and centrifugal bumblepuppy for them. Anti-Democracy Activisthttp://antidem.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-76209177993749768032013-09-05T14:57:31.250+01:002013-09-05T14:57:31.250+01:00@Tucker - That has been the strategy from secular ...@Tucker - That has been the strategy from secular libertarians for 40 years plus - from when there were no 'hate crime' pseudo-laws against disagreeing with the Left. It hasn't worked.<br /><br />What you suggest is, indeed, against human nature - since people cannot be neutral about things which matter to them (or rather, extremely few people can be neutral. I know this from multiple personal experiences of PC conflicts.). <br /><br />So it is not a matter of being free to disagree, it a matter of supporting what is true, and not what is a lie. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-32238109584404560502013-09-05T13:37:47.974+01:002013-09-05T13:37:47.974+01:00Leftism has not won these arguments, the Left has ...<i>Leftism has not won these arguments, the Left has simply punished those who argue on the other side</i><br /><br />It follows that a main point of reactionary strategy should be to push for laws allowing opinions that are currently disallowed. It would be as simple as that to reverse much of the present damage.Tuckernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-51045486607815780232013-09-05T09:30:29.419+01:002013-09-05T09:30:29.419+01:00Very good post. Sums up my own sentiments nicely.Very good post. Sums up my own sentiments nicely.o'retynoreply@blogger.com