tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post5711052258983108041..comments2024-03-28T21:32:26.550+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: The meaning of life and/or being aliveBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-30465972697995587132013-11-18T16:11:42.442+00:002013-11-18T16:11:42.442+00:00I think a lot of leftism is like this in the begin...I think a lot of leftism is like this in the beginning. Offering bad solutions to real problems.Adam G.http://www.jrganymede.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-65580491387469706162013-11-17T21:31:53.561+00:002013-11-17T21:31:53.561+00:00@Donald - good stuff, well said. @Donald - good stuff, well said. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-69947023580322832202013-11-17T21:27:43.239+00:002013-11-17T21:27:43.239+00:00@NF continued
" And what precisely is it tha...@NF continued<br /><br />" And what precisely is it that is required of the follower?"<br /><br />“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”<br /><br />"Is it accepting the beliefs that many hold as central to Christianity, or is it following the example given as to how to live the good life? "<br /><br />Both And, not Either Or.<br /><br />"Is a pagan or post-modernist or atheist who accepts that meaning exists within the Christian mythos, and who recognizes the validity of the values taught vis-a-vis charity, forgiveness, and inclusiveness necessarily at odds with Christians simply by the fact that (s)he cannot accept the mythos as logos? "<br /><br />Not at odds with those things it is not at odds about. At odds with those things it is at odds about. Those are great and holy things, and they come from G-d, but those things aren't G-d! You can turn holy things in to idols too!<br /><br />"This is a core question, because in our age, many an intelligent person cannot simply ignore the evidence of evolution, nor believe in a physical resurrection, or hold that the myth of Noah was a factual event."<br /><br />If you don't think that Genesis exclusively teaches YEC than you can *believe* in evolution (I and BGC do). The Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Anglican Churches - comprising more than 66% of the worlds Christians - have stated publicly it is acceptable for a Christian to accept an evolutionary account of universal history (of course with all sorts of caveats to the philosophical baggage people try and tack on to what this means).<br /><br />If you accept that G-d exists (say by an argument from natural theology, or divine revelation, or even because you can't prove he doesn't exist) than physical resurrection is certainly possible. <br /><br />You could deny that the story of Noah was a factual event but still affirm the physical resurrection and the existence of G-d, thus this is an intra-house dispute (the infallibility versus inspiration with error of the Bible) and of secondary or tertiary importance than the questions does G-d exist and did Jesus rise from the dead.<br />Donaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-28316632951353909072013-11-17T21:27:01.798+00:002013-11-17T21:27:01.798+00:00@NF
Campbell has been influential on my thinking,...@NF<br /><br />Campbell has been influential on my thinking, and his statement has resonance for me.<br /><br />"I cannot, however, accept the claims of the Christian mythos as factual, even though that mythos has a deeply meaningful narrative."<br /><br />Which parts and for what reason? If you want to approach it in an ordered way (though of course conversion is a complex thing which involves all aspects of a person: intellect, will, emotions, experience, temptation, influence) you might want to consider a cumulative case for Christianity.<br /><br />One method you might find helpful is to take intellectual stock of what you hold to be true at present. For example I've come to realize that there are at least three metaphysical assumptions *science* (here defined as something close to: the quantitative investigation of matter in motion) that make coherent sense given (Christian) Theism and are non-sensical or at best brute facts given atheism. They are:<br /><br />1. The existence of an objective physical world apart from my thinking about it, and the fact the universe displays regularity and conformity to mathematical and logical principles across time and space. Briefly for the reasons given by the arguments from contingency and Aquinas's 5 ways.<br /><br />2. The rationality of the human mind to comprehend the external world. Briefly by the self-defeating nature of physicalist determinism and by (Plantiga's) evolutionary argument against naturalism.<br /><br />3. The reality of objective morality as moral character is absolutely necessary for scientists, because they must be committed to Truth and therefore be ruthlessly honest. Briefly an atheistic universe implies, when logically traced out, nihilism to which the only 'rational' response is hedonism (and possibly suicide once one exceeds the pleasure-pain threshold). <br /><br />You no doubt are familiar with these arguments but *in case* you haven't and want to do a serious study I recommend Ed Feser for an aristotelian-thomistic approach (http://edwardfeser.blogspot.ca/) or William Lane Craig for an analytic approach (http://www.reasonablefaith.org/). I really also commend CS Lewis to you if you haven't read him and want to dig in to these things deeply from the Christian worldview.<br /><br />As a scientist one of the most frustrating aspects of the way people abuse science is to use its fruit (albeit unconsciously) as a sort of psychological affirmation of their atheistic worldview when in fact if they recognized the metaphysical foundations necessary for science they are incredibly theistic and detrimental to an atheistic account of reality (pace some forms of platonism and aristotelianismn - which are radically different worldviews than most modern atheists). The psychological rewards should work the other way!<br /><br />"The values espoused by the Jesus that is portrayed in the gospels are in large measure good values, but are they sufficient, and are they universal?"<br /><br />If He is who He claimed to be, namely G-d, then yes - they are both sufficient and universal.<br />Donaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-68545564159200092852013-11-17T14:57:59.716+00:002013-11-17T14:57:59.716+00:00@NF - I think you need to think more deeply about ...@NF - I think you need to think more deeply about this paragraph.<br /><br />"This is a core question, because in our age, many an intelligent person cannot simply ignore the evidence of evolution, nor believe in a physical resurrection, or hold that the myth of Noah was a factual event."<br /><br />Because you pack into it all kinds of interlocking assumptions which are blocking you. Maybe you need to take things one question at a time. <br />Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-39632301390296696632013-11-17T03:09:03.976+00:002013-11-17T03:09:03.976+00:00Campbell has been influential on my thinking, and ...Campbell has been influential on my thinking, and his statement has resonance for me.<br /><br />I cannot, however, accept the claims of the Christian mythos as factual, even though that mythos has a deeply meaningful narrative. The values espoused by the Jesus that is portrayed in the gospels are in large measure good values, but are they sufficient, and are they universal. And what precisely is it that is required of the follower? Is it accepting the beliefs that many hold as central to Christianity, or is it following the example given as to how to live the good life? <br /><br />Is a pagan or post-modernist or atheist who accepts that meaning exists within the Christian mythos, and who recognizes the validity of the values taught vis-a-vis charity, forgiveness, and inclusiveness necessarily at odds with Christians simply by the fact that (s)he cannot accept the mythos as logos? <br /><br />This is a core question, because in our age, many an intelligent person cannot simply ignore the evidence of evolution, nor believe in a physical resurrection, or hold that the myth of Noah was a factual event.<br /><br />Mythos and logos are very different spheres. I can accept the meaning of a Christian mythos much as I can accept the meaning within the mythos of Lord of the Rings. I do not, however, accept that Lord of the Rings has an existence outside of mythos.Nicholas Fulfordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-12681827628653759442013-11-16T14:44:36.879+00:002013-11-16T14:44:36.879+00:00I have about 25 of his books, and I do enjoy readi...I have about 25 of his books, and I do enjoy reading Campbell. But I agree with your assessment of him with respect to his "post-Christian" biases and his artificially contrived dichotomies.<br /><br />A brilliant man, no doubt, but he certainly had his blinders on.Michael W. Towns, Sr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02393617480343537715noreply@blogger.com