tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post625587151639428772..comments2024-03-28T00:17:55.823+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: The problem of residual abstraction (maths, geometry, physics) in philosophical (and theological) thinkingBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-5039505095047710212019-10-07T13:32:48.562+01:002019-10-07T13:32:48.562+01:00@William - But it is worth saying more than once! ...@William - But it is worth saying more than once! <br /><br />Could this be an aspect of the End Times? that what we Most need to know is 'too obvious', 'too simple' - 'hidden in plain sight'. <br /><br />There is nothing to prevent anybody learning and accepting this stuff; *except* their pride - and (of course!) that is in practice a really-HUGE reason Not to accept it!Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-15619507730557877542019-10-07T12:51:10.622+01:002019-10-07T12:51:10.622+01:00I wonder if the characteristic you draw attention ...I wonder if the characteristic you draw attention to is because all these people felt they had to prove themselves to intelligent people and intelligent people all have a scientific world view. To see the world in terms of beings would be thought too close to how a child operates. Then , of course, all of us are educated in a positivistic way and it's hard to throw that off.<br /><br />Having written this I now see you said the same thing in your last comment!William Wildbloodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231219533755925897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-85074234063703248232019-10-06T17:07:39.334+01:002019-10-06T17:07:39.334+01:00@Bruce
Interesting, sounds plausible. But then ag...@Bruce<br /><br />Interesting, sounds plausible. But then again, from what I've understood being able to do anything well implies a high 'g'. The best instrumentalists soloing with technical mastery does require a good sense for structure and indirectly math. And the best musical improvisers almost always seem to be men, who are able to go off-script.<br /><br />I have never ventured into classical music, but it doesn't strike me as rhythmically complex more than musically complex. Naturally since rhythm doesn't have a big role in classical music? The most rhythmically complex music I have found to be traditional Indian music. They have so many odd-time signatures, and recite all notes and compositions verbally before playing them. No abstraction! Westerners clearly are more in their minds than in their bodies.<br />Adilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458942641355740167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-17068767591329525972019-10-06T14:05:43.118+01:002019-10-06T14:05:43.118+01:00@David - I think that it is understandable how peo...@David - I think that it is understandable how people like those I mention were tempted to make things complicated enough to be 'taken seriously' by intellectuals, scholars and the like. (It is embarrassing to say outright that everything is alive and conscious!) But, looking back, we can see that it did not work; and indeed confused things. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-59776524659278051382019-10-06T13:53:13.007+01:002019-10-06T13:53:13.007+01:00"The good news is that - when thus restated -..."The good news is that - when thus restated - the metaphysics and theology of Romantic Christianity becomes something intuitively understandable by a child; rather than requiring advanced training in the natural sciences."<br /><br />It took me most of my adult life to realise that it's that simple. And that is what Jesus taught also, to approach the divine as a Child! <br /><br />Watch out for adolescence though...<br />Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-79660047255594516642019-10-06T11:13:15.579+01:002019-10-06T11:13:15.579+01:00@Eric - I recall that ability with rhythm is not w...@Eric - I recall that ability with rhythm is not well correlated with analytic intelligence; and the ability to perform music not well correlated with intelligence either. SO that many of the best folk musicians are not highhly intelligent in terms of IQ or 'g'. However the picture is blurred by classical music, which is often extremely complex - so that high level conductors and composers (and to a lesser extent pianists) need to be extremely intelligent. <br /><br />My point here is rather more philosophical; but an analogy might be if someone tried to explain why a great blues singer was great; but used a complex musical analysis of tone, pitch and rhythm to do so - and ended up implying that the musician was somehow actually doing this analysis and then performing it, in order to be great. <br /><br />I saw this done - to an extent - with a piece of Northumbrian Pipes playing by Billy Pigg, who was an instinctive and inspiration (and somewhat inaccurate) amateur folk musician (regarded as one of the greats); which purported to transcribe what he actually played... the result was kind-of interesting (as I recall, it had him changing time signatures between bars, and all sorts of complicated stuff), but did leave a strange impression Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-73949324344547063742019-10-06T09:39:34.941+01:002019-10-06T09:39:34.941+01:00Some people are really good with music theory, but...Some people are really good with music theory, but not so technically proeffecient with playing and improvising their instrument. Others just let go and play. I think Jimi Hendrix said as soon as he starts to think he can't play anymore. He must be one with his instrument. I wonder if this parallells what you are saying. Like a natural musical talent just is able to play, a spiritually realised humanity would be able to know by direct insight.<br /><br />This topic resonates with me because I've always struggled with math, but still have an intuitive bodily mathematical sense of rhythm and feel for order. I also tend to think metaphorically/visually rather than linearly or abstractly, which has not helped me in school.Adilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12458942641355740167noreply@blogger.com