tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post6408198767028438531..comments2024-03-29T14:41:00.974+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: The Vision of William Arkle - the question of Mother in HeavenBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-80617452733616298932014-03-06T22:27:17.592+00:002014-03-06T22:27:17.592+00:00Well, the Ezekiel passage is one of the most graph...Well, the Ezekiel passage is one of the most graphic in the Bible, but the essential analogy is of Jerusalem as God's adulterous bride. Likewise, the entire book of Hosea is a very beautiful love story to Israel, God's wayward-but-redeemed wife (exemplified in Gomer, wife of the prophet Hosea. She fled him to live a life of prostitution, and he was instructed to literally buy her back from her pimp). <br /><br />I mention the Old Testament passages because I'm familiar with the anti-Trinitarian stance that would dismiss Christ's innumerable references to the Church as His Bride as being somehow different from God the Father's. <br /><br />The imagery of marriage is used as often as the imagery of children, although in Ezekiel 16 both analogies are used, to the dismay of moderns. You prefer the KJV, then:<br />"3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.<br /><br />4 And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.<br /><br />5 None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.<br /><br />6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.<br /><br />7 I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.<br /><br />8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.<br /><br />9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil."Commodorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-58476709638329986222014-03-06T21:13:13.092+00:002014-03-06T21:13:13.092+00:00@C - Care to explain, link or cut and paste a rele...@C - Care to explain, link or cut and paste a relevant passage? Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-58657000365635176582014-03-06T19:51:13.622+00:002014-03-06T19:51:13.622+00:00Ezekiel 16, the entire book of Hosea, then, would ...Ezekiel 16, the entire book of Hosea, then, would be discarded? Commodorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-56053968663551174272014-03-06T13:16:22.817+00:002014-03-06T13:16:22.817+00:00@GG and josh - I intend to write a post on this qu...@GG and josh - I intend to write a post on this question - thanks for raising it. <br /><br />My inclination is to assume that Mormons and Catholics (Eastern and Western) are describing the same psychological conviction and spiritual experience of a Mother in Heaven using a different explanatory scheme. <br /><br />On the other hand, the identity of the Blessed Virgin Mary and the Mormon Heavenly Mother is (apparently) distinct - the one being in origin a Man (human woman) and the other being a God. <br /><br />But then, of course, these are not permanent distinctions. <br /><br />There is absolutely zero scriptural evidence that Mary was an 'avatar' of Heavenly Mother who had taken mortal form and was operating behind a veil of ignorance concerning her divine origin and nature - but neither is this possibility absolutely contradicted - and it does explain some aspects such as her sinless purity and complete devotion and assumption/ translation direct to Heaven (without resurrection) - and her continued miraculous interventions. <br /><br />Probably, for most people for whom our Mother in Heaven is a spiritually experienced reality, her exact nature and origin are of secondary (or no) significance - she is the mother of Christ, and she is (in some real sense) the mother of us all. <br /><br />Perhaps that is enough and as much as we need to know.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-5389818751458057382014-03-06T13:02:27.606+00:002014-03-06T13:02:27.606+00:00What GG said. This shows you have a keen spiritua...What GG said. This shows you have a keen spiritual intuition, but there is no need to innovate here.joshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-69831877896188191042014-03-06T02:56:49.706+00:002014-03-06T02:56:49.706+00:00The Catechism of the Catholic Church includes &quo...The Catechism of the Catholic Church includes "Because she gives us Jesus, her son, Mary is Mother of God and <b>our mother</b>; we can entrust all our cares and petitions to her: she prays for us as she prayed for herself: 'Let it be to me according to your word.'"<br /><br />For Catholics, Mary literally is "our Holy Mother" or "our Blessed Mother" having given birth to our supernatural life. Similar to Dr. Charlton's suggestion, she is held to have been specially chosen by God and to have completely and freely accepted.<br /><br />She is not an absent mother either, but an active and good (of course!) loving mother: she hears our pleas, comforts us, help guide us in spiritual growth.George Goerlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07916687977887167466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-1662763666102340522014-03-05T21:28:20.324+00:002014-03-05T21:28:20.324+00:00@Adam "(says the Mormon who is undecided abou...@Adam "(says the Mormon who is undecided about the Mother in Heaven doctrine)"<br /><br />I know that, and it is another factor in my caution.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-74478260834435117552014-03-05T21:25:25.118+00:002014-03-05T21:25:25.118+00:00That is a remarkably beautiful and powerful vision...That is a remarkably beautiful and powerful vision.<br /><br />(says the Mormon who is undecided about the Mother in Heaven doctrine)Adam G.http://www.jrganymede.comnoreply@blogger.com