tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post7568573945147161825..comments2024-03-29T12:03:37.344+00:00Comments on Bruce Charlton's Notions: Why obedience and surrender to God's will are wrong descriptions of what God ultimately wants from usBruce Charltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-3174741447891024662018-09-15T16:15:43.170+01:002018-09-15T16:15:43.170+01:00@William: "The primary Christian virtue is su...@William: "The primary Christian virtue is surely not obedience to God but love of God. Obedience is an early stage in spiritual growth but is replaced by conscious, intelligent cooperation."<br /><br />Exactly. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-55510764668531331942018-09-15T16:15:00.278+01:002018-09-15T16:15:00.278+01:00@CCL - If God as a person gives a specific command...@CCL - If God as a person gives a specific commandment to an individual human by direct knowledge (without uncertainties of generalisation, sensory communication and interpretation) - then yes. Otherwise not. Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-3627851181299973022018-09-15T15:08:04.499+01:002018-09-15T15:08:04.499+01:00The question is whether God gives us commandments ...The question is whether God gives us commandments out of love or some other motive.<br /><br />If God gives us commandments out of love, then obedience to those commands is indeed the primary virtue possible to humans, perhaps the only virtue fully possible to any human. It is only by reliance on God's loving commandments that humans have any possibility of truly serving their own interests.<br /><br />If God's commandments are not motivated by love for us, then obedience to them could not involve anything we should call a virtue at all. It should at best be cowardice and more likely treason to our true interests.Chiu ChunLinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03519192610708043962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4683970826895755480.post-22182203070515873882018-09-15T12:52:43.656+01:002018-09-15T12:52:43.656+01:00I think doing God's will, which is, after all,...I think doing God's will, which is, after all, mentioned at the beginning of the Lord's Prayer, simply means aligning your personal will with spiritual reality. It means not acting from the egotistical self but in line with the truth of the universe. The association with obedience and submission implies a kind of slavery which is not God's desire for us at all. He wants us to be free and independent but to be so from the level of a oneness with spiritual truth rather than the self-centred position we normally adopt.<br /><br />The primary Christian virtue is surely not obedience to God but love of God. Obedience is an early stage in spiritual growth but is replaced by conscious, intelligent cooperation.<br />William Wildbloodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231219533755925897noreply@blogger.com