I have come to believe that a high proportion of modern Western people have been 'born bad' - that is, they were pretty evil from pre-mortal life, and incarnated with an evil-tending disposition.
They are not predestined to choose damnation - they must choose it; but it seem like they really don't need much persuading...
It is just all too easy to get modern people to join the side of spiritual evil; and they are terribly happy about themselves (smug, sanctimonious) when actively working for the promotion and implementation of evil.
I mean to say, as a sufficient example... It is Very Evil Indeed to brainwash young children and their parents into accepting mutilating surgery and permanently harmful hormone derangment, under some transparently feeble pretence that the child 'wants' to change sex; and that radical, prolonged, inescapable and systematic psycho-physical abuse will really enable them to do so...
Well, knowing that this is extreme evil - evil at the Caligula/ Mengele level - is Not Exactly Rocket Science; yet the current ruling Establishment... politicians, civil servants, lawyers, doctors, therapists, school teachers... all these and more in large numbers, are queueing-up to help-out with this vile project.
And all this is not just tolerated (like evils in the past sometimes were), neither is it hidden (like the secret police activities, or death camps); and it is not just advocated: on the contrary this is compulsory - presented as Good and implemented with rewards and sanctions. Worse; everyone involved and around must show-and-express positive and supportive feelings about the project.
Or Else.
And all this multilayered and permeating evil has been introduced with near-zero opposition and very little need for sanctions.
Those are the facts. I find it is hard to explain them to my own satisfaction without invoking a considerably-greater-than-usual tendency to evil among modern Western people.
We are no different than those that came before us. If they were born into and and put through this society they'd face similar challenges. You're putting far too much importance on the here and now. This is just a learning experience.
ReplyDeleteI don't know anything about your life, but I do know that you are a professor and as a professor you are in all likelihood immersed in an ultra librel environment. The majority of the world does not think or live like those around you.
We are no more evil than prior peoples in my opinion. We simply have a different set of challenges before us.
The baby boomer generation seem to be in constant fear that the world around them is about to crumble. I don't know if this is because they experienced the greatest economic windfall in the history of the world and they fear it will all disappear before their eyes or what? But the world is not what the media portrays nor is it what the singular percent lives in and finds important.
But I'm just a farmer in the middle of America so take it with a grain of salt
@ads. Your premise that all people everywhere are exactly the same, strikes me as impossible -assuming premortal life and a personal god.
ReplyDeleteWe are certain to differ, it is the nature and direction and magnitude of difference that needs to be established.
I understand how you are thinking Bruce and you may well be right, but from my perspective it seems that people are under a spell. They are without a moral framework, morals are relative. They have BEEN demoralized. Swimming in poisonous waters. Victims of mass indoctrination and programming as much as anything else.
ReplyDelete@w - There is, of course, an element of that - but if it was the main thing then I think we would see a lot more people 'waking up', yet that isn't happening.
ReplyDeleteFpr example, when people retire from work you would expect them to become disenchanted; but the opposite seems to happen. I have known many retired people, who were OK when at work, then become insane SJWs - for no very obvious external reason.
ADS, assuming you're younger than Baby Boomer....
ReplyDeleteI think the fears of the baby boomers might be in that they are the (last) generation to actually live through the sexual revolution, the inflection point of which was 1967. It was not an instant transition, but that year seems to be a label for the process.
The post sexual revolution world is the water in which you grew up. And you don't have the experience of seeing/livng through the change. But if you look at the deltas, the changes in metrics, they are frightening. And extrapolating them out with SSM, or the homosexual (LGBT) phase of the sxual revolution, it's even more frightening.
What has happened to divorce rates, age/delay of marriage, birth rate (below replacement!), STDs, sex/porn addiction, child abuse, out of wedlock births, absent fathers (and attendant crime rates) in Western societies from 1967? All _skyrocketed_.
So how did that Sexual Revolution (Summer of Love, 1967) work out? Well, the results are in. The negative results are astoundingly bad. But has academia and media said "Oops, looks like we were wrong" ? No, they doubled down. And then they gave us SSM.
In other words, we're supposed to accept the arguments for SSM from the SAME people and factions who have been lying to us about sexual matters for over 50 years? They were terribly wrong about heterosexual sexual matters, but now they're right about homosexual matters?
The same spell that Puddleglum awoke from when his foot was burned by the Witch's fire.
ReplyDeleteThe entire West has fallen under that spell.
--Barn Jollycorn
The waters really are poisoned nowadays and we are victims of mass indoctrination, but if someone is correctly orientated inside themselves then he should see this and take the appropriate action, mentally at least. So few do though or so it seems.
ReplyDelete@Books - From the work of Thomas Sowell (backed up by Shelby Steele), the same can be said of the so-called 'civil rights' movement, and its actual, objective effect on black Americans. The 60s was a fraud; and the point at which systematic and sustained dishonesty became integral to Western Establishments.
ReplyDelete@BJ - The comparison shows that the characters in Silver Chair struggled against enchantment and awoke as soon as the active enchantment stopped. Modern people neither struggle, nor awaken.
ReplyDeleteWilliam - What I am trying to understand is what to do in a world in which it seems likely that hardly anybody is convertible - not least because so many people apparently would not want what Jesus offered us, even if they were convinced it was true. This is something new. 400-ish years ago Pascal was clear that 'everybody' would want to be a Christian if they believed it was true, because it was the only really hopeful system of belief. Nowadays that assumption does not seem to hold.
ReplyDeletePerhaps we just have it too easy now. 400 years ago people suffered physically a lot more. You say you wonder what to do. Just what you are doing in my opinion. Our task is simply to speak the truth as we understand it and not worry about results.
ReplyDelete@William - It is a question of attitude. If the chances of successful evangelism are very low indeed, then that has implications for how we (or I) approach the matter.
ReplyDeleteFor example, I very seldom explain or argue nowadays (compared with my previous attitude) - because I have found it is either ineffective or counter-productive.
Indeed, I found that people would not listen, would not follow the argument, would simply change the subject - would be reinforced by the assumption that I was evil etc.
You're right. Arguing only convinces the already convinced and if you engage in argument you just get dragged down to the level of debate with each person trying to score points. The only valid reason for arguing is to give people some rational basis for their already existing intuitions or to make these clearer. So it might be helpful to the believer but it won't, or is very unlikely to, convert the unbeliever.
ReplyDeletebruce,william,
ReplyDeleteIntellectual argument never really converts anyone. It's the Holy Spirit that is needed. He convinces. Our purpose is to help a "seeker" get in or to a spot or condition or atttitude where the Holy Spirit can do the work.
yes, it may take some intellectual argument or a bit of "righteous selling techniques" to guide or assist someone into becoming a "seeker" ("investigator" in LDS parlance). But the "close" must be, and can only be, done by the Holy Spirit.
This must be done, usually, in person, in spoken format. So that the Spirit informs the speaker what to say, what is needed in the moment, and He actually carries the words to the listener's heart and convinces him of the truthfulness of the message. THerefore, the Spirit must be working at both ends of the communication. This relates to St Paul's statement that "spiritual things must be spiritually discerned."
Bruce is somehwat of an exception, since he is inner directed. Most people are outer directed. And, even after his intellectual study, if I remember the story, it still took some intervention or action on the part of the Holy Spirit to convince him and take him "over the line" into believing territory.
This is how relatively untrained, at least in theology, 18 to 20 year olds bring in over 200,000 converts/year to the LDS church. They teach/preach by the Spirit.
The manual that they use, "Preach My Gospel" is free at lds.org, in html and pdf format. printed copies are for sale at store.lds.org.
-Book S. Linger
@Books - Yes, but the Holy Spirit is present and works now as ever; yet in the past converts were made in great numbers among Western populations (about three a day on average when Mormon missionaries first came to England, most of whom emigrated to 'Utah'); but not any more. Now the situation is very different.
ReplyDeleteThings have changed - and it isn't the Holy Ghost that has changed, but Men. It is commonplace to blame a bad society for the change in Men, but a bad society is mostly made *by* Men+ - so we are back to positing change deriving from Men.
For some reason we seem to want to believe that Men are the same everywhere and all all times - and *every* change is down to changed society, yet not deriving from changed Men - but I can't see any reason why we should believe this!
+Note: Angels and Demons are also - presumably - responsible for change, as well as Men - and A&Ds presumably vary in proportion, number etc from place to place. Maybe the number of demons has increased more than angels?
But even if this is true, it is (for Mormon believers) presumably originally down to changes in Men, since Angels and Demons are continuous with Men.
You wrote:
ReplyDelete"I have known many retired people, who were OK when at work, then become insane SJWs - for no very obvious external reason."
I can think of one reason. When we're at work we are forced to deal with reality even if it's heavily mediated through layers of satanic bureaucracy. For many people, perhaps most, once they retire it's just them and the TV.
It is our need to work, to struggle, which forces us to face and resolve hard moral questions. Maybe this is why the bible says we are to earn our bread by the sweat of our brow.
@BC,
ReplyDeleteIn my previous comment I was addressing the testimony versus argument point brought up by WW. But back to the OP of more evil.
Yes, it does look like there are more evil-doers doing greater evil. And I'm with you on the points of judging and discerning intentions as well as actions. I've bookmarked some of your posts on that and have referenced them in comments on other blogs.
One of the themes or sub-themes of the Book of Mormon is wickedness coming from ignorance, or "traditions of the fathers." As much of the West has lost/corrupted the Christian tradition, each succeeding generation has more people who are more ignorant of spiritual matters. In other words, the west is becoming what the Bible calls "heathen" and "pagan". The Book of Mormon is a bit more clear than the Bible on how the Lord looks upon those who have no light, ie, who are blinded by the "traditions of the fathers." IE, from the
bible: those who sin against the greater light are under greater condemnation. And therefore, those who sin against lesser light, lesser condemnation.
We can see evil acts, and absent direct knowledge, we can infer intentions. But it is very hard to know the amount of light/spiritual-knowledge another person has received.
I've read most of Kreeft's book "How to win the culture war" and I like his describing non-believers as patients.
Another point: LDS call the innate conscience, the ability to discern good/evil, the "inner voice" of a person the "Light of Christ." It is possible to burn out or "sear" the conscience.
I think we will eventually come to a point where it will be so bad thst it won't matter if someone is doing evil through ignorance or is knowingly sinning against the light. But I don't think we are there yet.
Book S. Linger
@Books: You say - "it does look like there are more evil-doers doing greater evil. "
ReplyDeleteThis is not what I am saying: I am saying that there are more people than ever before on the *side* of Evil in the Spiritual War.