Indeed, the desire to worship is often (apparently) itself a manifestation of this desire.
Worship is sometimes about boasting of membership of strongest gang, of wanting (for obvious reasons) to be on the winning side - eventually, if not now.
So powerful is this desire that it has led to grossly absurd contradictions:
As when people assert that their God is so totally powerful that it is above all human considerations and does not need anybody or anything else for any reason...
But why such a God would have the slightest need, or desire-for, or interest-in being-worshipped - it is utterly unclear...
This matter of what God wants depends on God's presumed nature; on what kind of a God it is... or what kind of a person.
For Christians in particular, it seems strange (except for centuries of propaganda and habit!) to suppose that a parent-God, whose children we are, would desire worship.
Especially given that any human being who wanted the world (indeed the universe!) to be organized around his own worship, would probably be a despicable monster.
And especially given that Jesus Christ did not (to put it mildly!) behave in that way, did not demand worship - at least not in the usually-accepted records of his life.
For me, once the matter had been raised to consciousness (by reading William Arkle) it became obvious that God does not want to be worshipped, and never has - although God is (like any loving parents) tolerant of the follies of his young children... at least when these follies are innocent or inevitable.
If not worship, then what? Well, ultimately (and to simplify), I suppose God wants much as many human beings (God's children) want - in those moments they are at their best and most thoughtful...
That is: God wants love, creativity in living (that is, each individual bringing some of his own uniqueness to creation); a life of strongly loving mutual relationships among family and friends; in a world without death and evil.
And for that to happen; God wants those Beings who want the same, to become immortal and Good (by resurrection) and dwell in Heaven.
And worship simply doesn't come into it.
6 comments:
It’s quite a snare as the more thoughtful people tend to notice this and either stick with that God and become cold-hearted (one such recently told me the desire to be a good parent was a manifestation of pride! true enough in that motivations are always mixed with *some* evil but ofc what she then idealized was the total removal of self from parenting) OR they reject it and usually land in atheism/materialism or oneness spirituality.
Stone Choir are not romantic Christians but I appreciated something they recently covered about Creation itself being God’s greater book and more important than the Bible (God Himself says so in the Bible after all). I understand the hesitation to “psychologize God” by inferring His motives from Creation, but either you draw an arbitrary line somewhere in your efforts to understand God through understanding Creation, OR it’s not only fair game but literally our task in this life to grasp His psychology!
@Mia - I quite agree. Perhaps because I am a late life convert, I am very aware of big contradictions that mainstream Christians take for granted because they have never known otherwise and haven't thought about for themselves (or because they regard the acceptance of such contradictions as a test of faith).
I would say getting to know God, not "psychologizing" God (which would be a hostile way to frame it) - and for Christians it should be of central importance; although I can see that other religions (and Christians that envy and emulate other religions, particularly monotheisms, have reason to think otherwise).
One of the most striking things I encountered was when Arkle explained that if one gets to know God, and what kind of a person God is, then this provides clear discernment concerning many matters where people are confused or being manipulated.
https://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2022/11/what-is-real-christianity-arkle-test.html
I have struggled with the concept and need worship for years. I am an adult convert. Slowly I have come to understand that worship is for us & it is necessary part of our spiritual growth. Surrendering to worship means we lay down our pride & preoccupation with how others perceive us & selfconscious awkwardness & simply pour our our gratitude, praise and love for our creator. In that moment there is a greater chance of sensing the presence of God & of being comforted & strengthened by it. It is also a powerful tool for spiritual warfare against the demonic.
The act of worship isn't limited to a particular action like singing - but the goal is to have your life become an act of continuous worship- which would be continuous friendship, love & communion with God. Any thought or feeling that tells you worship is unnecessary & pointless is taking the believer to a wrong place. I would even say it's a deliberate tactic from the Enemy to divert your attention from realizing it's true importance.
@DiG - You are, of course, free to look at the title of a blog post and not think about or engage with what the posts actually says - but it seems a pretty futile activity.
He doesn't desire worship for His own sake, which you are correct would make any being a monster. He desires it because it makes us more humble so that love can flow in -- which it can't flow in with someone proud -- so that that love can then flow out in an endless abundance of loving service to others, what we call uses. I read your post, and the one who makes a similar point clearly also read your post and clearly agreed that the Lord does not simply desire worship; is the bar for thoughtful engagement that high? Besides which, what they said came from God and the heart.
Anyway, you're correct that He doesn't desire worship for His own sake and that the mere size or temporal power or attachment to such externals of a religious group does not say anything in itself about whether such a group is spiritually healthy. And exactly what you know God to want, "love... and a life of strongly loving mutual relationships among family and friends", flourishes precisely when by worship we put aside our own self love and attraction to evil. Think of how many up-themselves people there are, from the lowest to the highest; all of them benefit from regularly acknowledging a vastly superior being, since this implicitly guards them against arrogance and other evils. Every scrap of real love and conscientious service in us is the flesh of God, which we make part of ourselves the more we worship and thus put aside our selfish selves; not our individuality, which is precious to God, but our selfish selves.
"Because the Lord is to be adored, worshiped and glorified, people believe that He loves adoration, worship and glory for His own sake. But in fact He loves these for mankind's sake, since a person comes thereby into a state such that the Divine can flow in and be perceived, because the person thereby sets aside his native character which inhibits the influx and reception. For his native character, which is love of self, hardens the heart and closes it up. He sets this character aside by acknowledging that of himself he does nothing but evil, and from the Lord only good, thus occasioning a softening and humbling of the heart from which springs adoration and worship.
It follows from this that the uses the Lord performs for Himself through mankind exist to the end that He may do good to people out of love, and because this is His love, their reception of it is His love's delight" (Divine Love & Wisdo 335).
@Trent - I think you are softening and broadening the concept of worship, and then arguing that it may do some people some good - which is of course as true of worship, as it is of almost anything.
But maybe underlying this is a sense of "the state of the world" and of the Christian churches in particular. My own evaluation of the spiritual state of group- "Christianity" is very, very bleak - much more bleak than anything in the mainstream, or in the conservative and traditionalist circles.
If participation in worship is indeed doing people good, then it is not doing much good, not enough good; and that good is too feeble to counteract the harms of subordinating oneself spiritually to organizations that are locked-into the global totalitarian system.
(Obviously the Christian churches themselves are hypocritical and dishonest about worship; since all major churches willingly/ enthusiastically closed down their worship for many months in 2020 - and maimed it for long afterwards - because their leadership believed propaganda that there was a deadly plague which affected church goers, but not other kinds of human gathering. Lourdes was closed. The absolutely clear 2020 Christian church attitude was that human spiritual wellbeing did Not require worship, or sacraments, or group prayer - these were all implicitly or explicitly stated to be inessential activities, that ought to be suspended in a serious crisis.)
It seems a plain fact that a worship-focused religion does not, and cannot, suffice here and now. That is - I think - the vital insight.
Worship may indeed sometimes do some people some significant good, but this is very much a secondary matter.
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