In an ultimate sense, this is a just a subset of "the problem of evil" - and its existence At All; but most of the attempted explanations of the presence of evil in this world are focused upon human beings. Apparently; many mainstream Christians (although not me) are sufficiently satisfied by the traditional explanation that human evil is a consequence of 1. human free will (granted by God) and 2. The Fall; plus 3. that there is always a possibility that mortal humans may repent and accept salvation.
It is this possibility that any human who is currently committed to evil may, nonetheless, repent and accept salvation that serves to explain why such humans are not annihilated or incarcerated somewhere where they can do no harm.
So; most orthodox Christians believe that evil demons are real, and that they have a harmful effect on this world; but that they cannot ever repent.
This creates a contradiction.
It seems obvious (?) that any Good God who had the power to do so (as an Omni-god does, be definition); would decisively sequester such evil beings somewhere where they could not corrupt or damn human beings.
That God does not do; and allows demons access to humans, implies either that God is not Good, or that God is not "Omni".
[Note added: To clarify, here I am not trying to refute the orthodox explanation of the existence of demons in the first place. This, in traditional orthodoxy is usually a matter of angels being conceived as a separate creation from Men. Upon having been created, these angels then use their free will to choose evil - they become fallen-angels. This fall is then regarded a - according to the attributed nature of angelic beings - a permanent condition. What I am instead saying here is focused on the question of what God does about fallen-angels/ demons, after they have arisen.]
Maybe this is why so many modern Christians who cleave to the definition of God as wholly Good and "Omni" tend to deny the reality of traditionally-understood demons. Instead they (seem to) regard demons ("if they really exist") as merely confused, misguided and "disturbed" spirits who might attain salvation; or in some other way as only-partly-evil, or reversibly-evil.
Or else such Christians fall back on the "God's Goodness is total but un-understandable by Men" argument; which leaves the Christian "God-is-Good" deity indistinguishable from the Islamic concept of "Good is God".
Such are the ways in which the stark contradiction of traditional Christian theology when it comes to demons is obscured; and concealed behind imprecision, and complexity of (only vaguely-understood) abstractions.
NOTE: I intend to present an alternative metaphysics to explain permanently-evil demon-spirits and their continued operations in this world; in a soon-to-be-published post - which will be referenced back to the above argument.
I'm looking forward to your alternative metaphysics however for now my sense is that demons *can* repent. It's just that in doing so they die (in one host at least). They're terrified of love because if a host notices them, sees them for what they are and offers love anyway then they can't help but repent and wink out of existence. It's a sort of corollary to the fact that they have to be invited in in the first place.
ReplyDelete@Ron - I am here focused upon the orthodox-traditional conception of demons. Your conceptualization falls into a different category, by which "demons" are not actually never-incarnated spirits of a separate creation and nature from humans - i.e. your suggested demons are - at least wrt evil - not qualitatively different from evil humans, except in that they are extinguished by repentance. You would then need to explain *why* a Good God created such beings, for whom repentance is - in effect - punished.
ReplyDeleteI recommend looking into the work of Michael Heiser. https://drmsh.com/. His work has brought to light what I find is a much cleaner and more biblical understanding of Demons and Angels.
ReplyDeleteDemons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephlem, children of man and fallen angels. Demons had their chance at redemption like Lucifer. Those that accepted were spared in the great preload war between the nephlem.thos that rejected God are what we call "Demons" today as there physical bodies were destroyed in the battle and flood.
Because story needs antagonists?
ReplyDelete@IAMS - Yes, but you have not addressed my point.
ReplyDeleteAp - Surely there is no shortage of "antagonists" in mortal life - what will (more and less) evil Men, and the multitude of natural constraints and disasters; plus entropy (disease, ageing, death)? Surely no necessity to add totally-evil, non-excludable, non-exterminable, spirit demons?
Apologies I just can't help being more interested in what is true than who believes what! I do realise you're going beyond that and I am interested to know what your idea of demons is and how it arises out of your schema.
ReplyDeleteI think the traditional view is that demons are fallen angels. Mine, which I haven't really thought through, is that demons are mental parasites that arise out of a lack of love.
We aren't normally consciously aware of them but they operate through us, having no bodies of their own. They sometimes control our behaviour so in that sense they are incarnated I suppose. They hate existence and creation and so God is giving them what they truly desire when they are extinguished. I suppose what they are repenting of is corrupting a human being and thereby trying to corrupt further human beings. They operate in the dark, cooperating neither with us nor with each other much and this is what hell is: everything grinding against everything else in a big waste of energy.
Perhaps mine is a limited conception corresponding roughly to the nephilim of the Old Testament.
@Ron - I have written about demons before, including in recent years, if you do a word search.
ReplyDeleteYou may not be so interested as you expect by the forthcoming post! - I have nothing different to say about what demons are (i.e. wholly evil spirits) or the kind of things they do; which are what really matters. It's just a matter of trying to answer a few nagging questions of my own, and explaining them in very general metaphysical terms.
I think it was Chesterton who pointed out that a strong person cannot be brave; it takes a weak person to be brave. If God had created only strong persons, there would not be any room for the virtue of bravery.
ReplyDeleteThe larger point is that any blemish on Creation (including demons) is an opportunity for greater virtues to arise. A point more beautifully pictured in the Ainulindale. The whole concern with the Problem of Evil (of which your post, as you say, is a subset) is predicated on a conceptualization of Good and Evil (at least when written in caps) as context-independent. Tsunamis create enormous amounts of suffering, but they are also opportunities for enormous displays of heroism and virtue.
I always thought it was Lucifer’s evil that was hardest to explain in an Omni-Good framework, although I could give it a try: it benefits mankind to observe wholly-evil beings as we choose between the evil and good in ourselves. That is, if we are able to see total evil we are less likely to excuse, tolerate, and justify partial evil. Our rejection of evil can be more total. The demons are contained in this life by the need to be invited in: those oriented toward the good are sufficiently protected. For those not oriented toward good, perhaps becoming a victim of an evil parasite is sometimes the best medicine for repentance.
ReplyDelete@Mariner - NOt a personally-directed comment; but I'm afraid that attitude you describe strikes me as explaining-away, rather than explaining - making light of very serious and terrible things. IMO it (rightly) discredits Christianity to talk of evil in such an abstract fashion. We Must Do Better.
ReplyDelete@Mia - As I tried to clarify, I am not trying (here) to focus on the existence or occurrence of demons, or Lucifer; but that they are (on the Omni model) allowed to operate in Mens' lives on earth.
ReplyDelete"The demons are contained in this life by the need to be invited in: those oriented toward the good are sufficiently protected. "
But (in traditional orthodox theology, and also for me) we are all sinners, even the greatest saints (who often describe being plagued by demons); and we all invite evil and demons - this must be regarded as inevitable for human beings as we actually are.
With demons we are talking about demons that are regarded as nothing-but evil, and immortal, and unrelenting - there is *plenty* of evil and hardship in life, without adding these to the mix.