Wednesday, 19 October 2016

More good news from the US elections - Traditionalising and maybe spiritualising the 'hacker' community

The increasingly gloves-off lying and persecutions of the Democrat Party in the upcoming US election - and their targeting of Julian Assange - is probably having an effect on the 'hacker' community which may become highly significant.

Mostly, for the past half-century this community has sided with ultra-progressives and the sexual revolution; and against religion and tradition - and they have gullibly believed the rhetoric of the Left rather than observing the reality. But now they find that the mainstream media-bureaucratic Left are their prime enemies, and the increasingly Christian, reactionary and traditionalist Russians are their protectors.

Although the hackers do not wholly subscribe to the positive aspirations of Russian morality, they are discovering that at least the Russians do aim at a stable morality and their restricted national interest. While, in contrast, the US mainstream media Establishment and the Democrat Party Machine do not; but instead regard morality as an expediently-malleable means to increasingly destructive ends -- up-to and including increasingly obvious efforts to initiate World War Three.

The big question is whether the hackers will recognise that the root of these differences is spiritual - specifically religious.

It is hard to imagine such a materialist and secular group as hackers becoming traditionally religious - at least from where they are now - but maybe they might become deist, Platonist; and regard Good as an objective transcendental reality, and Life as government by ideal principles such as number, musical harmony, and archetypal forms?

It could happen very suddenly; and then the world will be changed; as the single most powerful micro-elite group abandons the mainstream secular Leftist project that they have, mostly in ignorance and naivete, been sustaining for the past two generations...  


Derek Ramsey said...

As a member of the 'hacker' community in the United States, I unfortunately have to disagree. The community has historically been interested in different issues from the general population: intellectual property laws (e.g. Mickey Mouse Protection Act), anti-spying (e.g Patriot Act and TSA groping), Net Neutrality, Open-Source, and Transparency. Most of these are bipartisan issues: neither D's or R's vote the way hackers want.

For decades the hacker community has been pretty much ignored by both parties. Whenever a politician speaks about technology (including Al Gore and Hillary Clinton), they are laughed at in forums. Hackers have been uncovering Wikipedia white-washing by members of both parties since the beginning. The failure of the launch and the Clinton email scandal were predicted by hackers at least a year in advance of the general populace.

The result is an alienated community. Now they do acknowledge climate change because the science is definitive, but cannot always differentiate between the science and the politics. And as you know, because of the science background a substantial proportion do not have room for religion. They tend to be socially progressive, however that's not the thing they are most concerned with.

Because of this they tend to vote Democrat. But their primary needs are not met by either party, not necessarily because they love the party. My point is this: if they were going to have spiritual awakening by being rejected by Democrats, it should have happened by now. But it has not. Some of them are spiritual, but very few.

Bruce Charlton said...

@Derek - Not quite sure what you are disagreeing with. I'm making a ?prediction - I suppose you are saying that nothing of the sort could ever happen, no matter what.

"Now they do acknowledge climate change because the science is definitive,"

Definitive? - On the contrary, there is not a single shred of *real* (honest and relevant) science to support AGW; simply because nobody in the world can demonstrate any evidence that they know how to predict (let alone influence and control) future global climate; but maybe that is what you meant.

Or do you just mean that the world climate has changed in recent decades, as it seemingly always has done?

Joel said...

People don't think statistically. In order to tell whether a trend is normal change or not, you need to know the historical variation in the trend. Is our current warming trend outside of the historical variation or not? This is where the global warming science tends to fall apart, because the answer is "it's hard to tell."

Unfortunately, the non-statistically informed individual looks at a set of data points ands sees "it's (slightly) warmer this year than last year" or "the global ice caps are retreating" and thinks that this proves something on its own.

Perhaps there is some human bias towards thinking that the weather each year should be exactly like the last, and anything that changes forebodes ill. Probably related to the fact that almost all of us spent the past several thousand years as farmers.

I do disagree with Bruce about predicting the future climate. If you could prove that we are well outside of historical norms for polar ice cap retreat (you can't with the data that we have) or well outside historical norms for Northern Hemisphere temperatures (there are some reasons to think that we not), then you could make a solid case for GW without being able to predict next years' weather. There are various people that have tried to do this, of course. But their methods and data have not struck me as especially convincing.

Bruce Charlton said...

@Joel - Quite honestly, there isn't anything to discuss; it is a no brainer.

The climate change predictions, and claims of climate control knowledge and ablity, and expropriation of power and resources to 'tackle' the 'problem', and multiplicity of top-level attacks on honesty, clear thinking and common sense - all this stuff represent by far the bigger ever scam-repression in world 'science'/ politics - the biggest by such a margin that by comparison nothing else comes close.

No more comments on this subject please!

Dirtnapninja said...

The future right must become the party that champions many of the ideas of the hacker community.

remember this...if you are to the right, believe in traditionalism and christianity Corporations are the *enemy*, especially the information based oligopolies in the tech sector. They are now part of the Democrat Partitocracy that will rule the USA for most of the 21st century

We must champion freedom of speech, rights for information industry workers, h1b visa reforms, free information flow, patent reform, internet freedom and so on. This will split apart the information systems community and put us on the side of freedom.

Derek Ramsey said...

@Bruce - I suppose you are saying that nothing of the sort could ever happen *Highly* unlikely. I don't share your optimism, but I share your hope. And they know nothing about Russian morality. I first learned about it here. The only comments I've seen amount to "Look how terrible the Russians are, and yet even they are better than us in this one issue!". They blame all America, not just Democrats.

..that the world climate has changed..always has done? Yes. Hackers viciously attack anyone (i.e. non-scientists) who make scientific claims that don't cite scientific references. They happily discuss alternative views that are properly sourced. They equate the spiritual with a denial of science, in light of typical evangelicals or Republicans discussing scientific topics. Until that changes, they won't be won over. I do believe this is the most important reason hackers are lost to faith. If only the majority of Christians were more like John Lennox, who comfortably merges his faith with his science.

Hackers are very concrete: They discuss specifics. They are not abstract like you, able to see the wider relationships and patterns at play. They are clearly seeing the concrete problems you describe, but they don't see the broader application.

but maybe they might become deist, Platonist; and regard Good as an objective transcendental reality, and Life as government by ideal principles such as number, musical harmony, and archetypal forms? I'd love for you to explain how this could possibly happen. I don't see it.

Jochen said...

Hackers are generally secular but not materialist. Computer science and software engineering is mostly about ideas, algorithms, math, and the underlying hardware is usually completely abstracted away. Code is typically written in a high level language, running on a virtual machine like the JVM that itself runs in a virtual environment provided by the operating system, which in turn typically runs on a virtual server. Hackers live in the world of thought.

I think a fair amount of them could be won to Christianity, but it would have to presented in an intelligent and honest way.

Bruce Charlton said...

@Jochen - Yes, but I don't think I am the man to do it - because I am ever-more aware of the concrete and personal aspects of Christianity. However, someone like Brett Stevens at (a Platonist deist, i think) - or Mencius Moldbug/ Curtis Yarvin himself (when he becomes a Christian, if he hasn't already...) - Or, indeed, people can work these things out for themselves, or have personal revelations. After all Kurt Godel was religious, a kind of Christian who devised a proof of God. Deity is a truth just waiting to be discovered by honest and persistent enquiry.

ajb said...

They might find simulation theory interesting, which is a kind of theism.

Nicholas Fulford said...

Abstract thinkers look for and are attracted to compelling mind candy. (I am one, so I know of what I speak in this regard.) Being comfortable with post-modernism gives degrees of freedom with regard to the frames through which I see and interpret my experience. It precludes attempting to see things in *absolute* terms, but keeps compelling me in terms of trying to dig deeper, push further, and examine from more encompassing frames, and then play by rearranging them to see what happens. There is an intense curiosity that seems built-in, which is satisfied by going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole, but not with making any frame absolute and immutable.

I tend to see hackers as being highly individualistic, anti-authoritarian - at least philosophically, - driven, persistent, somewhat OCD, and egotistical. Favourite films tend to include, "Blade Runner", "Mad Max", "Sherlock" - with a special love of his mind palace method, "The Matrix", and other similar films. Like Sherlock, I think many are high functioning sociopaths. Many embrace their alienation and would not belong to any club that would have them.

Anonymous said...

Stephen C. said: Derek Ramsey stated, in his interesting comment, that hackers do not generally see "broader applications"... well of course "broader applications" are not important if they do not correspond to reality, but if they do correspond to reality, they are undeniably important, right? Something is true or it is not, correct? Being a hacker was never a bad thing, it has always, in fact, been a good thing to be talented enough at some skill to be called by the name of that skill. So many people read the Bible and think to themselves, I am so glad that I was no Pharisee, no Scribe, no Roman - but the Pharisees, Scribes, and Romans all did quite well for themselves - and God was happy, conditionally, that a child born into a Pharisee family , a Scribe family , or a Roman family grew up to be a good Pharisee, a good Scribe, or a good Roman. Sure the shine on the brand seems a little tarnished, but God loved Pharisees! Many of us have fallen in love with men or women who, had they been born in Biblical times, would have been wonderful and likeable Pharisees! And, more importantly, God loved Pharisees much much more than it has ever occurred to me (and maybe you) to love them! But he wanted them to slowly listen - even begged them to listen the way a child would listen - in a way that I have never had the energy to beg them to do - and while I respect the skills of elite hackers, I know that even the smartest of them have in this life no more interesting way to spend their time than to spend that time slowly (or not slowly) listening to God. God loves us the way we are but loves us too much to let us stay that way!