Tuesday 2 June 2020

Do not focus on convincing other people you are right

We need to stop thinking-about, focusing-on, the problem of convincing other people.

This matter of 'argument' is a separate matter from the necessary task of each of us reaching solid ground about our own beliefs (our basic assumptions concerning reality); the task of reaching the bedrock of what we actually do currently believe in practice -- and then discovering whether this unconscious belief of ours is something we can or should consciously embrace, or else whether it should be rejected.

Indeed, the constant concern about how we are going to convince other people, is something that poisons the whole spiritual search from the get-go.

It would be better (it is better) to do 'it' by oneself, take responsibility for oneself alone; maybe not talking about it with anyone else - certainly not trying to persuade anyone else.

These things are hard enough to put into words, but putting them into persuasive words is even more remote from the primary experience; and actually persuad-ing some other person (leave aside group!) to adopt what we personally believe, is not a matter we can control (nor should we).

(From a comment at William Wildblood's blog.)


David Ray Milton said...

I came across a similar epiphany about a year ago after spending three decades attempting to debate and persuade anyone about anything. I still do argue with people, but with less neurotic energy. I learned that for two people to have a constructive argument or debate, they usually need to have a remarkable amount in common with their world views, intelligence, scholarship, etc. Otherwise, the people arguing will not even be able to understand what their opponent is saying.

edwin faust said...

There is a worthwhile spiritual autobiography by Karl Stern, a Jewish psychiatrist who escaped Nazi Germany and converted to Catholicism. He states that no one is ever convinced by an argument. What can bring a person to change his views is example, or so he asserts. The primary factor in his conversion was a simple, barely literate servant in his parents' home whose humility, kindness and unshakable Faith showed him a way to live that he knew he wanted. People were attracted to the early Christians by the way they lived: "See how they loved one another." The danger in these times is that in confronting such ubiquitous evil we become focused on it to the detriment of charity and our minds and hearts become obdurately combative. Proselytism is also often arises from uncertainty: it is an attempt to banish our own doubt by convincing others (really our self). One should always speak circumspectly, for the good of another, and not contentiously. This never helps anyone as far as I can see.

Jacob Gittes said...

I very much agree, Bruce. I can't help but think that my claim that humor is the best way to persuade might have slightly motivated this post.
And I had pretty much come to the same conclusion. I don't really try to convince anyone of anything now.
In fact, last night I sat around a bonfire at my progressive Buddhist friend's house. He was totally bought into the white privilege conspiracy, and said that he totally understands why the blacks are rioting, etc. Of course, my view is very different in almost every regard (not opposite, but more or less simply not utilizing the same model for reality).
We got along fine. He wanted to know what I thought, so I told him.

I even told him that I think that Satan literally, not metaphorically, "feeds" on human despair, fear, chaos, anger, etc.

But since I didn't get angry, and didn't try to persuade him of anything, we got along pretty darn well.

He, however, is moderately consumed by fear, despair, and anger.
The difference in affect was real, and he can see that.
Whether or not he wishes to do anything differently, or consider other ways of conceiving of reality, is up to him.

William Wildblood said...

Jake's point that the demons "literally, not metaphorically, "feed" on human despair, fear, chaos, anger, etc. " is an important one and shows why they are always happy to foster argument and dispute. One theory runs this is because they have cut themselves off from God so they cannot receive life force, for want of a better expression, directly so can only get it through humans who have lowered their energy vibrations (again, for want of a better expression!).

This may be why the demons encourage both side of an argument and tells us that we should never get involved in argument but simply state our position and leave it at that, explaining if requested sincerely to do so but not trying to convince those who disagree.

Sean G. said...

@Jake To your point, mocking (which you mentioned in that comment) has worked wonders for me when dismissing internal demons. For years I used to engage with them and hate myself for thinking horrible things. Now that I have correctly identified the source, I laugh at them and they scurry away.

It doesn't appear to have any usefulness with people who's uncritically accepted metaphysical assumptions blind them to our primal existence. Plus it's a distraction. I think your example is a good one, though it can get more difficult with close family.

Ingemar said...

I found a video called The 5 Steps of Deprogramming. It was posted several months before the Birdemic and found it serendipitous that I was able to watch it before this catastrophic series of events. Since I respect Dr. Charlton's stance against media links, I'll summarize the 5 steps so that you don't need to watch if you don't want.

1. Weeding the garden: This is when you realize the various aspects of the System/Matrix/Narrative do not match up with your learned, lived experience. The "garden" is your mind, and the weeds are the falsehoods you have been conditioned to believe.

2. The Rabbit Hole: Once you have cleared most of the false information you will have a strong urge to find anything that looks like the truth, or something that leads to the truth. This is the most dangerous part of the journey because you'll go through many paths that contradict each other. Since the evil one is extremely smart, he anticipated that you would make it here eventually and set you down dead ends so that you'll still be stuck.

3. Oversharing: This is the part that I find is the most relevant to Dr. Charlton's post, and one where I and other Awakeneds find ourselves in. Once we have peeked behind the veil, there is an intense urge, likely out of fraternal charity, to awaken others just as ourselves. Unfortunately, most who haven't made an effort to weed their gardens have no incentive to do so and will react with hostility. At this point in your journey, you may lose friends, family and social standing. While painful, you cannot "go along to get along" because to do so would be to surrender to an old evil system. The key to enduring this step is to put your trust in God as your source of comfort. Additionally, seek His help to make others find the truth.

4. Watch out: Now that you have made it past several travails, you filter all new information through a "red pilled" point of view. This is basically an enhanced, smarter version of step 1. You will know right away if something is of the evil one or not and prepare accordingly.

5. Watch: I'm not sure why this wasn't subsumed into the previous point, but essentially this is to be a guardian for others.

The video is here https://youtu.be/RO9zKtIOk9s

Sean G. said...

@Ingemar I saw that video awhile back and found it interesting. It left me wondering whether more people aren't silently waking up but feeling isolated.

There is something about the youtube production and humor style that's off-putting, combined with terms like "reprogramming" and "red pilling" which both feel like materialistic symbols that treat our bodies as machines that can be fixed as such. These might be minor gripes but they seem meaningful somehow. I love the garden analogy!