Monday 16 April 2018

Centrality of the Holy Ghost (i.e. Jesus)

We are born as children of God, thus have within-us that which is divine.

As such we can recognise, we can know the Holy Ghost - which is divine.

Indeed, the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ himself, which he sent after his ascension; as is expedient for us because the Holy Ghost is universal; available to all Men.

To believe in Jesus is the same as to trust, have faith in, and to love the Holy Ghost. (And vice versa.)

This, everyone and anyone can do - no matter what their personal circumstances.

Because all have a divine self, and all have access to the Holy Ghost.

And this is to be 'A Christian'. A real Christian.

(Even if when you have never heard of Christ; even if/ when Jesus is misidentified or misunderstood explicitly...)

Because what Men say, what Men teach is contingent and cannot be 'controlled' (even if God wished to control it).

What is needed must - in contrast - be certain, universal, immune to Men's wishes or abilities, and the uncertainties of circumstances.

What is needed must not depend upon prior knowledge.

And what is needed must be sufficient (even if it is not optimal).

Obviously so: Jesus loves us and is the creator and sustainer of this world; and he would surely not have left us with anything less?


Wm Jas Tychonievich said...

"the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ himself, which he sent"

What do you mean by that? He "sent" himself?

Bruce Charlton said...

John 16:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The Holy Ghost cannot come to us until after the incarnate resurrected Jesus has ascended. Only after Jesus had ascended to full divinity, could the HG be sent to us - because the HG is the universal Christ. (If the HG was a separate personage, he could be sent at any time - would not need to wait until after the ascension.) That was why it was (and is) expedient that Jesus should leave earth.

It's not something I am inclined to argue further - this is what I believe the Fourth Gospel is telling me.

TheDoctorofOdoIsland said...

The Holy Ghost or Comforter, and Jesus the Second Comforter, are distinct persons. The Holy Ghost was in fact present while Christ was on the Earth, and helped draw men to Christ.

Jesus and the Holy Ghost are both called Comforter, and the Spirit of Truth, for the same reason they are both called God. It is by the same token that Jesus and the Heavenly Father are both called Father, Creator, and Supreme Being.

- Carter Craft

Bruce Charlton said...

@Carter - Yes, I know the idea - but it doesn't make sense to me - in particular that the Holy Ghost is a distinct person. Which is why I'm trying to see things how the beloved disciple did, as the prime source.

Nathaniel said...

Do you think then that it was not the Holy Ghost who descended upon Christ during his baptism?

Bruce Charlton said...

@Nathaniel - Correct. That was a spirit from The Father; after Jesus ascended then the Holy Ghost came, which was from Christ. This distinction comes from the fourth Gospel. The Holy Ghost is linked with Jesus, whereas the Spirit comes from the father. If you read john 7:37-40 - esepcially 40, I think this is the distinction being made.

Unknown said...

Hmm, very interesting. In a way it solves something I puzzle over regarding the Holy Ghost, although ultimately I don't know if I can follow you there.

I come from an LDS perspective, and as such it's always seemed to me that the un-embodied nature of the Holy Ghost doesn't really jive with my faiths heavy emphasis on the importance of becoming embodied (soul = body + spirit). I was always told that he'd get a body after there was no longer a need for him (presumably during the Millennium), but that is incredibly unsatisfying.

My current thinking, although in a very embryonic state, is that the Holy Ghost is multiple people, rather than a single spirit. The Holy Ghost can therefore be at times your ancestors, or perhaps a spirit with whom you've had strong ties to in the pre-mortal existence.

Bruce Charlton said...

@Dan - I feel that there is a lot of hypocrisy and evasion wrt the Holy Ghost - and the felt-need either to be Trinitarian (mainstream), or endorse equally the three members of the godhead (LDS).

In practice, people (I believe) in their behaviour and in their hearts too (I think) either ignore the Holy Ghost (eg when praying) or else regard him as the 'servant' of the Father and/ or the Son - as an aspect or emanation or projection of Father/ Son. It 'psychologically' seems all-but impossible to do anything else!

It currently feels right that there was in Old Testament times and before Christ a Spirit which came either from the Father and/or the pre-mortal Jesus; but since the ascension there has been the Holy Ghost/ Comforter which offers the universal possibility a far more specific, personal, and indeed *saving* relationship.

After all, Jesus must have had a 'plan' by which all men, wherever they might be, whatever the circumstances, would be saved 'from now onwards' - and he surely could not have been willing to rely upon the contingencies of a slowly-expanding and never-yet-universal church organisation - nor on the dissemination of scriptures (their accurate translation etc).

It seems obvious (to me!) that the main plan of Jesus: working with immediate effect, as told us in the fourth gospel, was by direct and spiritual contact with every Man (indeed, with every Man who had ever lived).