Sunday 10 October 2021

All material is spiritual - but some spiritual is immaterial (and the spiritual is primary)

[Note: This is to extract, make explicit and clarify something very important that I have said and used many times in many blog posts.] 

Everything material is also spiritual. Therefore, all our material actions or behaviours, every-thing that happens in the material realm, has spiritual implications. 

But the reverse is not true. There are (many) spiritual events that have no effect on the material realm - but act only within the immaterial realm. 

The 'asymmetry' is a consequence of the fact that the spiritual is primary, and the material derives from the spiritual

In the history of reality there was originally only immaterial spirit, and the material (physical) at some point 'condensed' from this purely spiritual. 

The material is a 'sub-set' of the spiritual. 

It is useful to have this matter clear when trying to understand what is going on in the world now. The 'Ahrimanic' Satanic plan - which has been dominant among the ruling Establishment for several generations - is as follows:

1. To deny that there is any immaterial spiritual realm and to persuade the masses to live in accordance with this denial (that has been largely achieved); then 

2. To fully-control the material realm; and 

3. Thereby to control the entirety of the acknowledged spiritual world. 

This spiritual control via the material will be used to enforce the self-chosen damnation of Mankind. 

Everything material that They do, should also be understood as an intended spiritual intervention, directed towards Man's damnation.  

But there is a vast immaterial spiritual realm which They deny.

They can influence the spiritual realm, but only indirectly (e.g. by persuasion or intimidation). 

But the immaterial spiritual is outside of Their control: which is exactly why They want Us to deny it. 


No Longer Reading said...

Good post.

I found this helpful and clarifying.

Avro G said...

“But the immaterial spiritual is outside of Their control: which is exactly why They want Us to deny it.”

And exactly why we ought to focus on it.

messianicdruid said...

Me too! Thanks...

Nathanael said...

Hi Bruce

Have you considered predestination may be at play ?

rather than a free choice, maybe some are called ?

Bruce Charlton said...

@N - I'm not sure what exactly you mean. I find 'predestination' hard to understand - for a Christian. I suppose it must mean something other than I think it means.

But certainly I believe that everyone is born different; some are more good-aligned by nature, others more evil.

And I regard destiny as being related to how God wants our unique individual self to learn from life.

But I am sure that there is nothing that can over-ride our free will/ agency - it is a fact of our being. Everyone that enters Heaven has chosen to do so.

Nathanael said...

I too find it hard to understand, but my intuition is telling me to look into it to get beyond the superficial aspects. I will share the following.

"What God wills antecedently may or may not take place. On the other hand, the consequent will is efficacious.

Now the antecedent will of God is for all to achieve salvation, but not all are predestined. The antecedent will is more like the Hermetic notion of Providence. To deny the antecedent will would make God responsible for “wars, concentration camps,
and physical and psychical epidemics” as Tomberg points out. This view of God’s omnipotence is not uncommon and is based on presumption.

The consequent will involves the alliance of the divine will and the human will. This is not pure passivity, as Fr Garrigou-Lagrange makes clear:

'The wills of men are more in God’s power than their own.'

We can’t go into all the details right now, but God affects the will through graces and virtues."

"For God, intention precedes execution, or ends before means. Hence, according to this doctrine, God will also provide the means, circumstances, and situations required to achieve the ultimate end for the elect, or predestined. This is exactly what Guenon was getting at with the notion of “compossible”. The conditions of birth need to be consistent with, and provide the necessary opportunities, to achieve salvation or liberation. A sign of being predestined is to be born into the Medieval Germanic-Roman tradition, or otherwise to have the opportunity to embrace it freely. Nevertheless, some would spurn God’s love and reject it."

Bruce Charlton said...

@N- I don't believe that is true. Which is not surprising given that my metaphysical assumptions concerning the nature of God and Man are extremely different from those underlying that but of theology.

But more importantly, I regard hat kind of reasoning as incompatible with the core of Christianity. Jesus is depicted as having made a genuinely free decision to choose his destiny.

According to theology, I think a Christian needs either to say that God cannot or does-not compel the will of any Man; therefore there is no predestination to salvation (or damnation). Heaven is for volunteers, not conscripts; it is freely chosen - never compelled nor automatic. Otherwise it would not be Heaven.

Nathanael said...

"Jesus is depicted as having made a genuinely free decision to choose his destiny."
If Jesus was the incarnation of God in flesh, then this decision would have been predestined?

I'm just sharing thoughts here, that surely God would know the outcome before he came.

I'm with you in what you have just replied about God not compelling the will of Man (im just not sure that he *cannot* do that, maybe he can in rare cases)

I think there is truth in predestination *and* freewill... I'm just not sure how to reconcile them...

If we keep it on the ground, to me it seems like you were destined to write this blog somehow, and share your ideas etc as you do, yet also, you have made a choice to. It's like a fulfilment of destiny. A supernatural handshake maybe.

Bruce Charlton said...

@N - Well, God does Not know the outcome - except insofar as he makes the outcome through his creation (e.g. creating repeated opportunities for choice) - but not by compelling will.

I regard linear and sequential ('normal') Time as a metaphysical fundamental. Christianity got itself all tangled with with 'wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff' by insisting upon God's omniscience.

But if you follow through the implications, this is deeply incompatible with Christianity - which is the most time-dependent religion I have heard of (as well and being incompatible with the mass of the Bible, including the New Testament). Jesus was born/ lived/ died/ ascended at a particular time - and this transformed reality - which was qualitatively different before and after.

Nathanael said...

I'm not sure I can say for sure God does not know the outcome, or is not omniscient.

On the other hand I can see how it might appear that way from the point of view of man, that there is a *wish* of God, like a parent wishes for the best for its child.

It's like been on a train, the details of the what happens on the journey may not be known to the last detail, but the general direction and destination is. (the carriage and the track)

I don't see how your explanation of Jesus living/dying/ascending refutes God knowing this beforehand ie. that it was planned.

Bruce Charlton said...

@N "I don't see how your explanation of Jesus living/dying/ascending refutes God knowing this beforehand ie. that it was planned."

It doesn't! It is describing that Jesus was a transformative event in cosmic history. Time is real, and Jesus changed everything.

Nathanael said...

Yes with this I agree - maybe a clash of words/meaning in previous comments.

(FYI I am working through the ideas of predestination/freewill, I've just caught sight of this mountain so to speak, and aim to climb it)

fondolo said...

Matter and energy are in a way interchangeable. Matter easily converts to energy, energy can convert to matter, (the big bang) but not easily. The only other of which we can be aware (besides matter and energy)is consciousness, and everyone is aware of their own consciousness. Let us assume that consciousness relates to matter and energy somewhat as energy relates to matter. Matter derives from energy, energy and matter derive from consciousness. And let's identify consciousness with the "spiritual." That's the universe.