Wednesday 9 November 2016

Relief, not pleasure - hope but not optimism

I am very relieved that Clinton is not going to be the U.S. President; but not optimistic that Trump will himself be an agent of positive change.

This pessimism derives from his nothing/ conciliatory acceptance speech. My prediction is that the first hours and days tell you what to expect; and that if radical transformation is not there and at the front from the very start, it never will happen.

By this, Trump will be just another mainstream secular Leftist politician - better than his evil, incompetent, warmongering and dementing opponent; but not a positive good.

However, the unleashed forces that brought Trump to power... well they do fill me with both hope and also a dash of optimism!

This could be the next step towards a real spiritual awakening in the West - so far 2016 continues not to disappoint. The dominoes are lining up...


Nathaniel said...

I think if we consider that major fraud certainly did occur, the margin of his victory is very hopeful for the American people, and a miracle in overcoming the appearance of media and elite total control.

It feels to me like a pause, but not an ultimate change. I pray it is God's will.

Misanthropist said...

The whole Trump campaign is a psyop/controlled opposition designed to flush out opposition to the prevailing elite agendas (such as globalism, open borders, military interventionism, feminism etc.) and to demoralise it and finish it off once and for all. (The elites always control both sides. They simply choose who is most strategically/symbolically useful to install at a given time. I thought it was Clinton until late in the campaign).

The notable feature of this campaign was how elite opinion (such as the mainstream media, corporate leaders, policy establishment) was so transparently happy to be seen to be shilling for Hillary Clinton and hostile to Donald Trump. It was a kind of reverse psychology, knowing full well that many people would then go and vote for Trump thinking that they were sticking it to the establishment and elites. In reality Trump is simply one of their own. When things go bad under a Trump presidency (such as an engineered economic crash), they will say 'see, we warned you about Trump. But you didn't listen to us. You've got no one to blame but yourselves'. It's an old demagogic trick to pretend to be against someone that is really one of your own, so that people will support them in spite of you and you can wash your hands of responsibility for what they do.

Trump is a trap, and alas many on the 'alt right', white nationalists have taken the bait. (The elites and Satanists do love their word games. Trump is so named as he is their 'trump' card. You may also remember in the infamous video released of Trump's lewd talk on the bus, Trump bragged about pursuing married women. This was a little joke at the expense of Trump supporters that label opponents 'cucks'. The joke is that Trump supporters are actually being cuckolded). Evil as they are, they do have a sense of humour.

Albrecht said...

This is way bigger than Brexit. Maybe it will even give Brexit a kick in the pants. The only way this can be stuffed down the memory hole is by violence. For the next four years Trump in his bully pulpit will be a walking, talking thumb in the eye of the evil global junta. Hallelujah!

It took huge ("yuge") guts to brazenly say the things Trump has said which so badly needed saying. Trump gambled a fortune and his social standing championing "flyover country" vs Wall Street and Washington, or, in UK terms, Middle England vs the City of London. I don't see why he would suddenly start trimming now, his lack-luster late-night victory speech notwithstanding.

Politics always involves compromise. Even the conservative's beloved Reagan cut all kinds of deals. Much that he wanted to do never happened. Was he better than the alternatives? Hell yes!

The contrast this year is even more glaring. This is truly astonishing. A few months ago it was inconceivable. If worldly politics has any meaning at all (and it does) we have cause to rejoice.

The significance of this will take some time to sink in. America lives!

Nathaniel said...

@Mis - I believe you are miscalculating. Demonic power isn't all-willing as you have been led to believe, and Clinton was a genuinely evil, sick, and perhaps possessed woman. It is a good thing she did not win, and this election demonstrates how weak the mind-control, demoralization, and corruption of the masses really is. We may pray for mass repentance and the opening of hearts to God's will and be grateful indeed.

The real question is whether or not the people can go further and place God and goodness at the center of their lives and that of their country. If not, it is merely a break or pause.

Perhaps, as Dr. Charlton has suggested elsewhere, it will send the elites into panic mode and cause them to over react, or try to rush their plans for evil too fast in their haste and fear.

Bruce Charlton said...

David Icke has what seems to me a wise interpretation of the defeat of Clinton and victory of Trump:

He emphasises that this is a massive rejection of the political class and media: The Establishment - and that the important thing is that Trump was *perceived* to be a political outsider.

(Like me, Icke thinks that Trup will be a huge disppoaintment to those who seek a reversal of the current realities and trends).

The important thing is that there is no reliance on Trump to make the necessary changes - What is instead needed is a recognition that The System itself is rotten, and their Ideology is lethal.

What is needed is that the majority cease to cooperate with and assist the minority who are leading The West into social and spiritual oblivion.

Their power only comes from our collaboration; which depends on our belief in their agenda. This election appears to mark another step towards the awakening of an inert and distracted populace to the falsity and perniciousness of the Matrix they inhabit.

WHat matters is that we - as a mass of individuals - do not wait for 'them' to do what needs to be done; but we ourselves continue along this path and move onto the next stage.

Anonymous said...

If it were true, as Misanthropist suggests, that it "is a psyop/controlled opposition designed to flush out opposition to the prevailing elite agendas (such as globalism, open borders, military interventionism, feminism etc.) and to demoralise it and finish it off once and for all", that aspiration could not be guaranteed - other 'dynamics' and results are possible (though not 'guaranteed', either). I have seen various interesting discussions in terms of 'Trumpism'(so to call it) with and without Mr. Trump.

Practically, there is presumably scope for fruitful interaction with him as President. (Cf. Lord Richards recently saying he thinks him "wise enough to get good people round him and probably knows that he’s got to listen to them and therefore I think we should not automatically think it will be less safe".)

David Llewellyn Dodds

Junnies said...

part 1:

an interesting take on trump as samson

(above: a comparison of donald trump to the biblical samson)

i share bruce and icke's skepticism on trump, but with the caveat that i have probably followed trump's campaign closer than most, will add that i am optimistic about trump. unlike obama, trump has been in the public spotlight for a long time and he seems like a generally decent person and a sort of working-class billionaire (crass, lewd, but generally decent) that shoots straight from the hip and is completely immune to sjw/political correctness. (an amazing tweet of his "i have never seen a thin person drinking diet coke

despite his billionaire status and supposed establishment connections, the media establishment that was very clearly against him could not find any serious scandal or skeleton to throw at him, the worst skeleton being a tape of him speaking in a crass and lewd manner of how he could touch and grab women because 'when you're a star, they let you do it'( he is not perfect or a saint but he seems to lean towards the Decent if not Good.

i witnessed (and was part of) a grassroots internet movement on Reddit (social media site) and /pol/ (a subsection of 4chan, an imageboard community site) that was very significant in helping Trump's victory via the proliferation of memes, talking points, and grassroots investigation, dissemination and exposure of the establishment corruption of Hillary Clinton. At first, it was a movement that supported trump 'for the lulz', but it evolved into one that genuinely believed and saw Trump as a possible solution to the establishment corruption and the cult of SJW/leftism/political correctness. in fact, the internet sleuths are now digging into pedophilia, child trafficking, and possibly satanic connections embedded in the Clintons.

whilst obama vaguely trodded out platitudes of 'hope and change' and opposed vague abstractions of 'conflict', 'difficulty', 'uncertainty', trump clearly and viciously attacked the establishment. he said that the system was rigged because he had participated in it and knew how it worked, that his political opponents were all bought and paid for by donors, special interests and lobbyists as he had done. he pointed out that the establishment media was against him, pointing fingers at 'the heads of NBC, CNN, CBS ABC' (, etc. he railed against all of the USA's foreign policy abominations; 9/11, the iraq war, the syrian crisis, the anti-russian rhetoric, etc. against clinton, he pointed out her connections with the banker-class and stated clearly that she should be in jail. sure, he said some silly things but he never shied away from attacking the previously-sacred cows of US political discourse.

it was glorious to see the entire establishment- the mainstream media, the sjw/leftist/pc liberals, hollywood, western politicians, even obama himself, attack him, labelling him and his supporters with all manner of insults (-ists, -phobes, deplorable), attacking the internet counterculture movement by calling them deplorables, decrying the alt-right as nazis, labelling a cartoon frog pepe as a white supremacist symbol, etc. and in light of all that, i find it hard to imagine that the elites planned and organised this entire shitshow to 'fool us' into accepting donald trump.

Junnies said...

part 2:

if one were to imagine the perfect manchurian candidate sent by the forces of Good to infiltrate Evil, Trump would be it; initially written off as a joke, then assumed to be a weak candidate to be inevitably brushed off, and finally rabidly attacked to no avail when its too late, in part because Evil weakened itself with its own lies.

even if trump does turn out to be a disappointment, the energy he evoked in the American psyche is surely a powerfully positive one. Donald Trump has singlehandedly broken the spectre of sjw/political correctness and i predict more and more people will come out and reject the cult of sjw/pc. he has exposed and made conscious the systematic corruption of the establishment - not in its full depths of course, but a critical mass is FINALLY noticing, looking, talking and fighting. i have no doubt that trump's core supporters, the alt-right and internet counterculture, will quickly turn on Trump if he fails their expectations because they don't see Trump as a savior, but a spearhead of a cleansing, revolutionary movement, to be discarded as soon as it becomes blunt.

(ps there are also many signs that Trump is 'redpilled' on the current Big Myths/conspiracy of modern times - climate change, 9/11, SJW/PC/Leftism )

Bruce Charlton said...

@lego - I think you underestimate how difficult it is for one person, even if they were of exceptional integrity and courage, so reverse a long term trend when pitted against a vast and interlocking media-bureaucratic complex.

It is to easy to corrupt, or intimidate, that person into compromises and unwise alliances - unless they strike instantly to hammer home the new agenda and replace all senior figures and purge the institutions (Mencius Moldbug realised this, and wrote well about it).

I am surprised more people don't see this happening - in the past couple of weeks we have seen sudden irrational U-turns from the Head of the FBI and the President, and a few years back the same happened with the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court when he looked like opposing Obamacare.

My understanding is that all these people - top people, but that is no immunity, quite the opposite - were intimidated; probably using the vast apparatus of the surveillance state, and the apparent fact that the upper Establishment are all required to compromise themselves (often, it seems, with paedophilia - but no doubt there are other evils they may be required to enact) before being allowed a seat at the high table.

In sum, it is easy for politicians to make matters worse - but very difficult to improve things from the top except by encouraging and allowing the mass of people to do the right things.

Any good must come from the mass of people in the middle - and the mass is at present deeply deluded and corrupt - hence the urgent necessity for awakening.

But this *is* happening - praise be!

David Balfour said...

For a man that has a reputation for "shooting from the hip" and "telling it how it is" he certainly seemed to capitulate extraordinarily in his acceptance speech by actually *praising* Clinton in obsequeous terms. This from the same man whose campaign had been driven at times by promises to expose the Clinton administration for unpresidented corruption and press for a prosecution. If his integrity were not compromisable or he was immune to PC politics would we not expect an uncompromising acceptance speech in which characteristically and bluntly declares "Thank God the American people have been saved from the corruption of my opponent, and mark my words ladies and Gentleman...I am still going after Clinton when I take office!"

But of course this did not happen. Seems like quite a massive U turn straight from the off if you ask me.

Bruce Charlton said...

@David - My interpretation exactly.

Bruce Charlton said...

See also this:

If DT was taking over a corporation and wanting to turn it around and set it on a new direction - he would bring in his own team, loyal to him and not to the previous management.

If he doesn't do this, he will fail - indeed, if he does not do this then he will not be wanting to succeed.

Albrecht said...

"For a man that has a reputation for "shooting from the hip" and "telling it how it is" he certainly seemed to capitulate extraordinarily in his acceptance speech by actually *praising* Clinton in obsequeous terms."

Wait a minute. The guy who squashed Jeb Bush like the cockroach that he and the rest of his clan are, the guy who boldly stated that Muslim immigration needs to be scrutinized, who crammed it all right back down the satanic media's throat, and who just averted what was until 48 hours ago the near certainty of a Hillary presidency acts a little too gracious in his acceptance speech and suddenly he's under suspicion? How about giving him credit for knowing what he's doing?

Bruce Charlton said...

@Albrecht - "How about giving him credit for knowing what he's doing?"

WHy should we? Running for election is one thing - it's much like being an actor; but being what I would regard as a good President, and reversing the trend of half a century, is altogether a different matter.

Words are necessary - but alone, words mean nothing at all. We will only know DT by his actions.

If DT does not move fast - on a timescale of days and weeks - the fact that he is *massively* outnumbered within a hostile State organisation (the leadership of civil admininistration, law, military, police, health services, education and of course the mass media) will make it impossible to achieve anything.

But it would be foolish for anyone to hope of DT to do the work necessary, or even to make a start on it - that *has to* come from the people who voted for him (or, some of them); and it *must* start in hearts and minds, because *as things stand*, the USA is far too mired in corruption, greed, lust and the rest of it to be able to extricate itself.

Nothing good can come without better people - by 'better' I mean people who have acknowledged their massive sins and errors, have repented, and who will from now aim for The Good.

David Balfour said...

"Too gracious in his acceptance speech"
He wasnt being a little too gracious. He was being objectively dishonest and duplistic by speaking in terms totally opposite to his entire election stance towards Clinton. A key distinction and it seems to me a dangerous one to miss because it means we are seeing DT as we want him to be rather than the reality. Of course actions speak louder than words and time will tell but it seems hard to reconcile his acceptance speech with his election claims and that constitutes a major action in itself if you think about it. Something does not sit well with me intuitively and the speech does not inspire trust or resound with integrity. It was a 'tell them what they want to hear' politicians speech to placate the democrats and mobs and avoid civil unrest on an even larger scale than seems to have been provoked already by his win to begin with. Im happy to be wrong. Lets see what happens next then we'll know for certain.

Bruce Charlton said...

@David - "avoid civil unrest on an even larger scale than seems to have been provoked already by his win to begin with." Correction - the civil unrest, insofar as it is real and not invented by lower threshold reporting - was planned, funded and engineered; not provoked.

David Balfour said...

You're probably right! Its hard to accept just how wicked the media is for me I suppose. I should really know better by now but I suppose there is a bit of me that just doesnt want to accept that things are *that bad!* Sobering thoughts...

Misanthropist said...

I don't doubt that Trump's rise has contributed to a genuine shift in consciousness, in terms of the number of people that feel freer to speak out about political correctness etc. and in allowing groups hitherto excluded/demonised from the left's identity politics (such as whites and men) to start to promote their own interests.

Yet the problem is that by hitching themselves so heavily to Trump's bandwagon, the alt right, white nationalists, manosphere, have effectively staked much of their future credibility, morale and reputation on Trump's success and reputation. If Trump's presidency is a failure and/or if further damaging revelations come forward about Trump's personal character and history, it could easily be used to demoralise and destroy these movements. The elites will say, 'see, we told you these people are a bunch of deplorables. Look at their hero, Donald Trump, and what a reprobate he is'.

That is why I believe Trump is a trap that has been carefully laid, to lead the opposition right over the cliff. Trump is playing the role of designated villain in an elite theatre production. The elites aren't panicking. They are one step ahead of the game. It is only the lower level SJWs that are upset (but they are useful idiots that can't see the bigger picture and game plan of those at the very top).

Bruce Charlton said...

@M - I think you are going too far here - but I think DT was vetted by The Establishment - his candidacy would otherwise have been torpedoed at an early stage; that is why I expect him to be just a normal mainstream Republican-type President. However, the US population may be different: more awake - leading to different, possibly better, outcomes...?

Bruce Charlton said...

@M - I don't want to continue this thread. I agree that Trump has been vetted, but I don't agree that the whole current situation was pre-planned in detail as the preferred outcome. Clinton was the preferred Plan A, Trumpt is Plan B which the Establishment are reluctant to adopt - but it is indeed Plan B. However, The Establishment are limited in knowledge, insight, ability - they make mistakes.

The perception of Trump (not actuality) and in the greater awareness he has triggered and focused... these factors are very hostile to the Establishment agenda; very positive from my perspective.

Anonymous said...

To continue a bit further, here - Donald Trump, whether he would like to, or not, cannot talk authoritatively to anyone (except people he selects to help him) as Gandalf the White could to Saruman after the successful attack of the Ents - not yet, as he does not have the formal authority. He must persuade, in whatever ways - reassure, warn, surprise, keep whoever guessing - for some ten weeks from 9 November.

I don't know quite what to make of him, but I have been interested by various blog posts (etc.) of the American cartoonist, Scott Adams (author of Dilbert), who has looked at the election campaigns in terms of persuasion, and thinks Donald Trump a master persuader.

David Llewellyn Dodds

Bruce Charlton said...

@David - I don't regard Trump as a man of substance and integrity, so I don't expect anything significant from him (I don't listen to what politicians say they will do - only to what actually happens when the things has, supposedly, been done).

But I am still delighted to have dodged the bullet (literally) of HRC; and the encouragement this election has brought to the best motivated people; and the way it has brought the wickedness of the worst-motivated people into much sharper relief.